MikeFloutier wrote:I know this is a really old thread but it contains so much useful discussion on the subject I'm wrestling with:
How do I sheet my 150% Genoa when it's furled to 100/110%; in order to enjoy the improved pointing that should be available?
I tried leading the sheets through the jib cars (rear-most position) but, as the clew was now (naturally) so much higher, the pulling angle of the sheet was totally wrong (almost vertical) and defeating the object by being unable to tension the foot to any significant degree.
Thinking about it, although the size of the sail is much reduced, the correct "T" angle, i.e. sheet-to-forestay angle, remains the same. This implies that, although we want to sheet the clew more inboard (the reason for using the job tracks) we DON'T want to sheet it any further forward than the Genoa tracks - or at least we need some way of maintaining the correct "T" angle.
Now I haven't tried this yet so it may be totally wrong but I'm wondering if a simple solution might be to sheet directly to the winches.
What do you think? Any other suggestions?
Mike,
Have you seen the thread about EZCleats. These are what I use for my Genoa sheets, and you control them right from the captains seat on your . Put “EZCleat” in the search area at the very top right hand corner of this page. It will bring up the entire discussion.
Thanks Guys, I appreciate your replies detailing your setups and the EZCleats clearly have their place but it doesn't really address the issue of not being able to pull a part-furled genoa sheet at the correct angle.
If you look at the sail in this picture - http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/v ... at#p192071 - you'll see what I mean. The sheet is pulling almost straight down and the result is that all the force is employed in tensioning the leech. The foot is slack and the draft is clearly way back from where it needs to be.
the draft is clearly way back from where it needs to be.
Matt said that his set up with stantion mounted fairleads, he pointed better. Is that not better than you are able to do now Those stantion mounted fairleads, combined with the EZCleats, appear to be a solution to your original query. Maybe i’m not understanding
Thanks Ray, ok I just noticed that Matt's setup (in the Red Arrow picture) is of a jib whereas I'm dealing with a part-furled 150% Genoa. The sail size is similar but the clew position is quite a bit higher, due to the furling, meaning that the sheet (via the standard jib track car) is at entirely the wrong angle in relation to the forestay.
Even with the standard jib, you can easily see how vertical the sheet is. With the furled Genoa it's much more pronounced.
By the way, as BOAT's later post points out, using the stanchion ring and ezcleats (just employed for convenience) can't possibly improve pointing since only the last point of contact (i.e. The jib track car block) has any effect.
Anyway, it looks like I might get a couple more sails in before I come out of the water for the winter so I'll try experimenting with alternative sheeting options.
Many thanks for chatting this through, I'm learning so much.
I don’t believe a Genoa will ever point as well as a Jib. Especialy with a 150 Genoa. As you furl it, the tack rises up creating your problematic question.
If you don’t race, and even if you do, life is too short for such things to bother you so as to get incremental improvements. Just sail, and enjoy.
Was out yesterday and near the beaches we needed the full 150% Genoa. As we moved away furhter into Lake Michigan, the wind picked up and we furled it to about 110%. Easy peasy.
NiceAft wrote:I don’t believe a Genoa will ever point as well as a Jib. Especialy with a 150 Genoa. As you furl it, the tack rises up creating your problematic question.
If you don’t race, and even if you do, life is too short for such things to bother you so as to get incremental improvements. Just sail, and enjoy.
Ray
~~_/)~~
Last edited by dlandersson on Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have used both, and I gotta say that, as a lazy sailor, the jib is much better for me. I do have luff pads (thanks to Judy B!) and feel that the jib balanced the boat better, especially with the main reefed. I usually sail in 3-5 winds, and it tends to get gusty. It is much easier to get the boat level and happy with the jib. Having said that, I also have the original main, which I am sure is not in the best shape, but adequate for my lazy ways.
MikeFloutier wrote:Thanks Ray, ok I just noticed that Matt's setup (in the Red Arrow picture) is of a jib whereas I'm dealing with a part-furled 150% Genoa. The sail size is similar but the clew position is quite a bit higher, due to the furling, meaning that the sheet (via the standard jib track car) is at entirely the wrong angle in relation to the forestay.
Even with the standard jib, you can easily see how vertical the sheet is. With the furled Genoa it's much more pronounced.
By the way, as BOAT's later post points out, using the stanchion ring and ezcleats (just employed for convenience) can't possibly improve pointing since only the last point of contact (i.e. The jib track car block) has any effect.
Anyway, it looks like I might get a couple more sails in before I come out of the water for the winter so I'll try experimenting with alternative sheeting options.
Many thanks for chatting this through, I'm learning so much.
Mike,
I'll have to come back down sometime and see your setup. I have cars forward, and adjustment fore and aft on my ez-cleats. I can also use the blocks clear aft intended for the genniker if I have long enough jib sheets. With my jib, I get all the adjustment I need. My only issue right now is having the sheets foul at times on the car itself.
For what it's worth, I believe that there's a slight difference between the deck T-track positions (lengths) on an "X" verses the "M".
We have an model X, and 150% furling genoa.
When high "beating" with the genoa;
- in light air: we use the aft cockpit tracks, sheeted in 2 inches off the spreader.
- in heavy air: we use the inside forward tracks, furled down to 100%-ish. (I can't get much more sail out on the inside track because I keep the baby stays on and the clew cannot pull much further aft without fouling on the baby stays. With baby stays disconnected you can get much more unfurled.)
. Put “EZCleat” in the search area at the very top right hand corner of this page. It will bring up the entire discussion.
Those stantion mounted fairleads, combined with the EZCleats, appear to be a solution to your original query. Maybe i’m not understanding 
