Sailng booster system... ???

A forum for discussion of how to rig and tune your boat or kicker to achieve the best sailing performance.

Moderators: Catigale, Paul S, Heath_Mod, beene, Hamin' X, kmclemore, tangentair

Post Reply
kurz
Captain
Posts: 768
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:07 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Zürich, Switzerland, Europe

Sailng booster system... ???

Post by kurz » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:49 pm

Hello

Does anyone know about this system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MtS2WW2Jyo

Maybe perfect for our boats?

But how fast you have to ride?

Is the boat structure heavy enough to take the force?

Also: Mabe the Mac will get to wide for trailering?

Well I guess too complecated...??? !!!

User avatar
RussMT
Admiral
Posts: 5527
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:01 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Bozeman, Montana "Luna Azul" 2008 M 70hp Suzi

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by RussMT » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:34 pm

It's very interesting.

You have identified several reasons why it might not work on a Mac.


--Russ

User avatar
Highlander
Admiral
Posts: 5300
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:25 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Maccutter26M 2008 75HP Merc. 4/S Victoria BC. Can. ' An Hileanto'ir III '
Contact:

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by Highlander » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:03 pm

Well where they mounted them on the test boat is where the chain plates r on our Macs & that area of the Hull is significantly re-enforced for that reason & if it required more strengthening all that is required is to pull back the carpeting on the :macm: Hull do the necc. re-enforcement's & reglue the carpet back on no big deal
I,m thinkin a similar system for our Macs could b made from a pulley system rather than a Hydraulic system much cheaper & as our boats r a lot more lighter I,m sure we could go down to a smaller size wing system :wink:
Now the question is will it increase boat speed & performance or just stability , Technically I,d think all if it,ll allow u to fly more sail as I do already while being a heavy loaded boat :)

J 8)

User avatar
Newell
First Officer
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:42 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
Location: Layton, Utah, 96X Fast Sunday, 89D Windancer

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by Newell » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:13 pm

Maybe perfect for our boats

Is the boat structure heavy enough to take the force?

Also: Mabe the Mac will get to wide for trailering?

Well I guess too complecated...??? !!!

Raises some questions about how it would work on a X planing hull, having run without ballast I haven't been able to measure a significant speed improvement by dumping weight (ballast), perhaps heeling and the reduced sail power offset each other. If the boat could be held level with SBS it may be able to plane. If the company needs a test boat, have them give me call. :wink:

User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
Posts: 4036
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by NiceAft » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:32 pm

If I understood the video correctly, the wing system reduces drag crated by a keel, or a wing keel. Our boats have a different hull shape than traditional sail boats. We have less drag, even with a five foot daggerboard on an :macm: . The example of reduced drag (percentage) was with a weighted keel measured in tons! The boat shown in the video was smaller than our Mac’s, but the numbers used were for really, really large boats. Their marketing people must be the same ones Rodger used. :wink: .

I just don’t think the advantages of the wing are worth the effort on our boats. I believe it’s the same as increasing your motor size from a 50 HP to a 60 HP. Increased speed, but not worth the cost or effort.

Just my opinion.

Ray

User avatar
Highlander
Admiral
Posts: 5300
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:25 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Maccutter26M 2008 75HP Merc. 4/S Victoria BC. Can. ' An Hileanto'ir III '
Contact:

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by Highlander » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:31 pm

Ray
The diff between havin the wing system for sailing performance improvement & a bigger motor r very diff.

The wing system could b a very good system for other boats , but half or more of the benefits they claim do not apply to our mac,s for reasons that u mentioned .

Now as for the bigger motor the biggest advantage is if u r in big tidal & current water,s u do not have too worry so much if u miscalculate or get caught in that situation because u got the HP to get u through that situation as long as u planned for for enough fuel, so that is a big safety factor that is worth the price just like ur PFD !

No pun intended

But I,d luv too try those wings on my boat if I win the lottery lol :D :D :D :D

J 8)

User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
Posts: 4036
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by NiceAft » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:02 pm

Thanks John, but my example is still applicable.

Even the wing has some benefits for our small boats, but not enough to warrant a purchase. The marketing is exemplary. They post facts that clearly pertain to larger boats, and then use a twenty-foot something sailboat in the video.

Thanks again John, but your example pertains only to a limited group of sailors. To them, you are spot on, not to the larger group.

Ray

User avatar
BOAT
Admiral
Posts: 4243
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:12 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Oceanside, CA MACMJ213 2013 ETEC60

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by BOAT » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:36 am

This system is hydraulic for active tuning at all times - the hydraulics are not for retracting the wings to bring them on deck - the hydraulics are for turning the outer wing that is under the water - the wings are dynamic - this system can't be replicated with pulleys or mechanical devices - the whole thing is computer controlled with sensors in the bow and along the hull. The underwater wing is adjusting up and down pretty quickly as the boat changes heel angle.

The way these things work is the hydraulic piston tilts the wing at different angles as the boat heels from side to side and as the wings go thru the water they tilt to counter the force of the heeling - if your boat is heeling too much the wing tilts down trying to force the boat back over. If the boat stops heeling the wing returns to a neutral position. All this is happening in the wing that is under the water - the hydralics needed to control a heavy boat are substantial.

On a light boat this can be done without hydraulics - the Hobie Cat Foil boat uses the force of a float arm (ski) on the bow to make the tilting corrections in the wing - on the Hobie foil the entire process is indeed mechanical - very nice - if they had a mechanical system for the MAC it might be fun but I fear a MAC would be to heavy for a float (ski) powered foil. Drawback of the float/ski powered foils is they do not work well in real rough or choppy water, (the float control arm gets knocked around too much). The computer controlled systems work even in rough or choppy sea.

trifoil at Dana Point
Image

For a MAC you would need a really good full bank of lithium ion batteries to run the hydraulics for more than a few hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXSgZCDVWOM

In the video above you can hear the voice of Alan Alda (from MASH fame) explaining quite well the way the skis work.

User avatar
Neo
Captain
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:29 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by Neo » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:37 pm

Highlander wrote:Ray But I,d luv too try those wings on my boat if I win the lottery.
Hey Ray,
If anyone can come up with a lower cost design we know you can :D ... Don't wait to win the lotto :P

User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
Posts: 4036
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by NiceAft » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:01 am

Neo wrote:
Highlander wrote:Ray But I,d luv too try those wings on my boat if I win the lottery.
Hey Ray,
If anyone can come up with a lower cost design we know you can :D ... Don't wait to win the lotto :P
Neo,

I believe you meant to direct your post to our friend in Victoria, British Columbia, Canada; Highlander. He has the interest in that contraption, not me. :D

I’m trying to save up for an extended trip to Australia. Gotta meet as many Mac owners as I can. A congenial a group as ever they come. 8)

Ray

User avatar
Neo
Captain
Posts: 964
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:29 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by Neo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:07 am

Opps ... My mistake :?

User avatar
NiceAft
Admiral
Posts: 4036
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 10:28 pm
Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
Location: Upper Dublin,PA, USA: 2005M 50hp.Honda4strk.,1979 Phantom Sport Sailboat, 9'Achilles 6HP Merc 4strk

Re: Sailng booster system... ???

Post by NiceAft » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:07 am

Neo wrote:Opps ... My mistake :?
It should be the worst thing that happens to either one of us :wink:

Don’t fret, keep sailing.

Ray
~~~_/)~~~

Post Reply