Stub keel first launch

[Ixneigh]

Hi. It’s been a while since I visited the site. Covid and all. My boats been on her trailer for nearly a year. I’ve decided to build a stub keel 5.5 feet long, and four inches deep to be placed right aft of the board. This is for board up sailing and it will be bonded to the bottom of the boat with epoxy and a little fiberglass for now to see how it works. This is just for a bit of extra slip resistance when working in very shallow water. It necessitates raising the back trailer bunks. I had thought about doing that anyway to keep the boat from rolling back as she comes out on the trailer. And then the MacGregor bump etc. the stub keel
Will not increase the draft as the deepest part Is well behind the board.
Ix

[kurz]

interesting mod!

What will you with the rudders?

[Russ]

You always come up with interesting mods. I can't wait to hear how this performs.

[Interim]

Will that change the center of lateral resistance? Give you more lee helm?

--john

[leefrankpierce]

Been thinking the same thing, but full length and filled with weight to add center ballast.
Let me know how yours goes.
Even considered chines on the outside edges to give more slip resistance while healed over.

[Ixneigh]

Yes I did think of the outside chines. So called chine runners are proven to work. However to install them correctly so they do not detract from the power ability I feel needs a computer model. Plus it’s more of a job that can be done on a trailer. (Than I want to) Also I’m not sure they would be better then the single minikeel For upright lurking across the shallows. Once the boat begins to heel the chine would dig in. However in that situation the boat actually does ok anyway. (Recall I have also twin skegs aft, a good main and a selection of well setting smaller headsails). Where I found the most issues is slow sailing, upright, where the hydrodynamic forces on the hull deminish. The rudders are set in the manuals “never sail with them in that position”, the sail are eased and it’s really hard to come about. She just needs a little something. Also, minikeel vs chines while running in swell: mini keel is better. Less broach. More stability. I often have the board up. The board is in the wrong position for running. Minikeel will place lateral resistance aft a bit. Re lead: yes. I thought of that but I’m too lazy to dig out the internal added lead I have. Although I could. It’s just formed in place. Re long version of this mod: my instinct is no. Re adding this to everyone’s M: No. it’s a specialty mod, like the twin skegs. If you never sail the boat except with the board and rudders down you do not need them. Re tank or computer model a chine/spray rail: yes. I can’t do that part. Once it was modeled, a simple mold could be built to make a glue on mod which might be sold.

Ix

[Ixneigh]

Will that change the center of lateral resistance? Give you more lee helm?

--john

Unlikely. By the time the boat heels and weather helm appears, the keel will not be doing much.

Ic

[Ixneigh]

interesting mod!

What will you with the rudders?

I have the rudders horizontal during shallow water “lurk mode”.

Ix

[Jimmyt]

Make sure you post pics and give an assessment of how it works. I've been wondering about a thin water sailing configuration. Lots of great spots that are between 18" and 3 ft depth. Motoring would work, but prefer sailing. Interested to see what you come up with.

[Highlander]

Well interesting project & u got all winter in Florida to do it

Some guy,s on here have added the glue on chines or splash rails , maybe they can chip in

I,ve often wondered how a inverted swing up dorsal fin under the aft section of the V Berth in a self contained trunk would work for inproving upwind sailing & sailing in general this would b approx 3ft in front of the D/B trunk approx 18" wide & 24" deep
keep us all posted with pic,s
J

[Inquisitor]

I don't want to be a curmudgeon...

I like the idea, however... about tide beaching. In sand... might be fine. Then again again any wave action while dug in might be an issue. If something hard under it, it'll either snap off (if your lucky) otherwise... might put one hull of a stress load on your keel. Just something to consider.

[Highlander]

I don't want to be a curmudgeon...

I like the idea, however... about tide beaching. In sand... might be fine. Then again again any wave action while dug in might be an issue. If something hard under it, it'll either snap off (if your lucky) otherwise... might put one hull of a stress load on your keel. Just something to consider.

My Analogy , Beach Bums don,t care
If u added say 1/2" resin & glass at the center of the hull & work out each side to say 12" tapering off the ends u,d have a supporting 1/2" thick pad 5' 6" long X 24" wide , don,t know if adding sand to the resin mix would b feasable for adding extra permanent ballast either way that hull section would "bomb proof" & with rear skegs for stability u gonna rock & roll baby !

Now for ur Analogy , while ur boat is sitting on its trl bunks fully loaded for the season have u checked to see just how many Square inches of ur hull is actually making contact with ur Trl bunks I can tell u not not very much & this small area is supporting ur complete boat , engine , & gear & all content inside including fuel , water , & waste plus any people on board while loading/unloading , now as the boat Hull is designed to b able to support all that while also retrieving it onto the trl with full 11,000# of ballast water tells u just how strong this hull is

That,s the differnce between a well thought out project by a Do Sayer & a off the cuff remark by someone who knows nothing about their Mac boat by a Nay Sayer !

But all kidding aside I think all comments whither poss. or neg. r good safety measures as we all may overlook something in our eager moments to get a mod done
So all constructive criticism is good for the better of us all , just because someone thinks they know it all does,nt necc. make it right Oh I wonder who that would B

J

[Inquisitor]

So all constructive criticism is good for the better of us all , just because someone thinks they know it all does,nt necc. make it right Oh I wonder who that would B
J

I've not been back around here long enough to know who you might be talking about. I hope its not me. I feel like I ask more questions on this forum than anyone else. I've incorporated almost all the thoughtful replies. Certainly, I don't know it all and much of the reason I post here. I certainly will be the last one to squelch good ideas (or at least enjoyable DIY project). I'm building the elliptical tipped daggerboard. Will it make the boat faster... just slightly better than racing stripes on a car. I'll day dream I'm drag racing a Gunboat.

However, your comments (constructively) bring up some very important points that I am interested. Maybe, I'll post another question thread.

[Herschel]

My first thought was that this seemed like a lot trouble to go to for just a little improvement in performance. Then, I noticed your location in the Florida Keys. My limited sailing in the keys on a Hobie 18 and a Hobie Wave really impressed upon me with how many areas in the keys have really shallow and very hard coral based bottoms/channel sides. Its not all soft sand. I totally busted one of my rudder mounts on the 18 on the side of the channel coming out of Boca Chica one day many years ago. I can fully understand wanting to have a low profile in some areas with rudders and centerboard safely tucked away. Good luck.

[Ixneigh]

My first thought was that this seemed like a lot trouble to go to for just a little improvement in performance. Then, I noticed your location in the Florida Keys. My limited sailing in the keys on a Hobie 18 and a Hobie Wave really impressed upon me with how many areas in the keys have really shallow and very hard coral based bottoms/channel sides. Its not all soft sand. I totally busted one of my rudder mounts on the 18 on the side of the channel coming out of Boca Chica one day many years ago. I can fully understand wanting to have a low profile in some areas with rudders and centerboard safely tucked away. Good luck.

On the bay side back country I hardly ever sail with the board down more than a foot or two and often not at all. In back of big pine key I was moving the boat on the tide from one deep spot to another, often in windy weather with no visibility. I also love the downwind leg from key largo to islamorada and the WW sportsman district sailed right up close to the shore in the lee of the land.
Ix