REPLACEMENT RIGGING WIRES

[RHC]

Got a '97 couple of months ago. Rigging wires look OK (no broken strands, no corrosion). Since it's between the 5 & 10 yrs I've seen estimated as expected life, I am thinking of replacing.
1. What is a convenient source to order original Macgregor (or equivalent) rigging wires (ie: factory lengths, & terminations).

2. Does it make sense to replace 1 at a time (as opposed to all at same time)? If so, what would be a good sequence? I'm thinking outer shrouds 1st since it takes the most tension.

3. I've seen suggested tension of 280lb & 240lb for outer & inner shrouds respectively. Are these the factory recommendations? What about forestay & backstay?

4. I replaced the mainsheet block w/ a Harken 060. I am planning on using the old block (w/ cam cleat) on the mast raising system & use the pair of blocks to double as a vang. QUESTION: Is the mainsheet block rated to take the same load as the mast raising system? That system seems to take a huge load, especially when over winching in order to hook roller furler to tang on bow.

Thanks in advance for info.

[Frank C]

Same blocks used by the factory, but I agree that the mast-raising load seems to be at the limit. Two alternatives ... if you're gonna use the tackle anyhow, consider taking it only to 90%, then use a foot-loop for that last ten percent.

Second, consider Erik's mast raising winch pole shown here at his website, or also here in Mac Mods. (Credit due to E. Hardtle for nice mods and a great website to share the ideas.)


IMO, there's still so much tension in properly adjusted rigging (Erik's photo below) that a foot-loop is a good idea in any case. You just need a loop of rope around the furler drum. Standing on the trailer ladder, step into the loop for the final pull & PIN!

[RHC]

Thanks Frank,
I did try the foot loop technique, exactly as you described from the ladder. Worked great!
Any leads on where to buy/order rigging wires. I was hoping I could get them factory cut to length & terminated.

[Frank C]

It's doubtful that the factory will have any precut rigging for the 26X, and the M rigging is surely different. First try, go to the Memberlist and look up Bill at Boats 4 Sale - the forum's favorite Mac dealer. You'll see a button there for sending him an email .... explain your problem, I'm sure he'll have some good suggestions.

FWIW, I had a local rigger make up a new forestay at 4" shorter than original to reduce mast rake. Even at SF Bay prices it was only 50 bucks for the forestay with official machine-swaged fittings.

Your NorCal coastal winds will be just as fresh (averaging 20). In my opinion, the main needs two reef points and the jib is fine - you don't really need a Genoa. You might benefit from reducing rake too. If so, you'd want to shorten the forestay, lengthen all four shrouds, and skip the backstay. You'll probably want to add adjustable tackle in the backstay, and you can shorten it six feet. It doesn't have the stress of the other wires - hand-crimped is fine. Your local West Marine will show you how to make it.

There are lots of prior threads regarding rigging for higher winds. You can gain a good foundation on prevailing opinions by searching on:
mast rake
adjustable backstay
turnbuckle
spreader
You'll find enough reading to keep you busy for a couple of nights!

[Mark Prouty]

Amsteel Blue

So I have to ask, why not a soft backstay?
Amsteel Blue comes to mind immediately. It's what most of us use for runner strops, backstays, and other high load apps where sun and chafe can destroy cordage.

0 water absorbance
UV stable
1.6lbs/100 ft.
1/4" has an average strength of 9200lbs
And it has the added benefit of less stretch than steel. Just pre-load it before use to minimize any creep.

Add 2 thimbles ( a couple bucks each) and 2 brummel eye splices and you are set.

This way you can drive over it, kink it, wrap it around the mast, etc and it won't ruin the line! On anything that trailers I love soft running rigging. It's relatively cheap, easy to maintain, and easy to care for.

http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewt ... c&&start=0


Composite Rigging
http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3401

Composite Rigging

[Frank C]

I forgot about that Mark ... it's a great idea. I believe we could actually use one named AmSteel 12, since it's a 12-strand single braid (by Samson), appropriate for wire rope applications. My backstay tackle is looking pretty sun-faded, so I might replace both backstay and the 8:1 tackle using 75 feet of AmSteel. I'll also add another 15 feet to replace those "d*mnable" wire babystays at the same time. Seems that 3/16ths should be ample for the Mac's backstay & babystays (Loos shows 1/8" diameter 1x19 stainless rope with a minimum breaking strength at 2100#).

I found AmSteel Blue (Dyneema) at West Marine shows 5000# breaking strength for 1.59/ft. in 3/16ths. Amsteel 12 at Annapolis Performance Sailing shows 3800" breaking strength at $.62/ft. The difference is explained here by Samson. AmSteel Blue is considered "commercial," but the recreational AmSteel 12 (gray in color) seems fine for a Mac.

One might shop around some more, but APS had the lowest price I could find for 3/8ths Yale Brait.

[Frank C]

My local Bay Area rigging shop carries 3/16" Amsteel 12 at 78c per foot (versus APS at 62c per foot). The Rigger suggests that 3/16" would be the choice to replace backstay, babystays and cockpit lifelines. He objects to using Amsteel on forward lifelines due to chafing by mid-stanchions ( obviously not an issue for the aft lifelines).

I measured my aft lifelines at 59" with shackle forward and swageless pelican aft, needing about 14' total, including splices. Each babystay would be about 7 feet (?), or about 18' total. My backstay is about 60' with a cascaded 8:1 tackle .... call it 100 feet. Since they charge $8.50 per eye-splice, it would cost about a hundred bucks for labor, plus $78 & tax for the rope.

I've done one eye-splice in NER StaSet 1/4" double braid. It looks okay, but it took me about two half-days of fussing & fuming. (It would have been lots easier without the plastic thimble).

P.S. The brummel splice is supposedly easy to learn for single braid ... Guess I'll be learning to splice this winter. Anyone remember which issue of Sail or Sailing (sometime in last 24 months?) showed that brummel splice?

[Tom Root]

Frank, I found this... http://www.neropes.com/splice/sp13_sbra ... rummel.htm

[Tripp Gal]

Amsteel and Amsteel Blue are both Samson products. both are 12 stranded, Blue is more appropriate for rigging solutions as it offers more strength, less creep, and has less problems with fuzz as the line is abraded. Plain amsteel creeps like a SOB. Example: My backstay is Amsteel from the masthead to the cascade system. it's about 65 feet. So I install the backstay and know I have to expect creep. I ended up taking 6 feet off the backstay to accomodate the creep that occurred over the course of 3 months. But once the creep stabilized it has been fine.

The other option is any of the UV stablized 12 strands that include Vectran. Vectran has zero creep which is an excellent option for rigging.

Amsteel blue in the diameters you are talking about usually are for less than a dollar a foot. The vectran is usually about a dollar a foot.

[trapeze]

I work with Amsteel blue daily, in other applications. The eye splice is relatively easy. You will need a fid. Here is a link to the instructions.

http://www.samsonrope.com/home/pdf/Clas ... Splice.pdf

In the splicing directions, the first line of step 3 should read; Measure 4 tubular fid lengths (8 wire fid lengths),

You will have better luck milking out the cover if you use 4 fid lengths for mark four.

[ALX357]

what about this idea.
since i added a new tang to the portside transom for the backstay mod, which matches the original one i left on the starboard side, would it be workable to run an Amsteel Blue line from one of the tangs, up thru a block hung from the chickenhead, and down to the other tang which has the adjustable tension fiddle and jam blocks. That way i would have a 2 to 1 pull on the mast, and a balanced backstay. Not sure what interference the backstay on the side where the seat hinges would have with the helm seat raised.

[Frank C]

AXL,

Consider this instead. Cut-off the wire backstay about 7 feet shorter & crimp-in a new end loop. Just be sure you leave it long enough to easily reach the shorter backstay when you stand on the cockpit seat ... you want to easily access your shackles & blocks. Now hang a block from that end loop and run your Amsteel from port to stb through that block. Now insert a 4:1 tackle down to the stb quarter for an 8:1 cascaded purchase.

I actually used a double block at the backstay end loop, plus a single block shackled down on the port quarter, multiplying my purchase even more. It's lots more trouble to run both sides to the mast top, and two to one isn't enough purchase anyway.

Yes, the split backstay will interfere with raising the cockpit seat, but I release the tackle and leave a slack backstay whenever sails are dropped. This permits raising the seat, no problem.

You must be aware of how much you bend the mast with this extra purchase ... limit the pull on the backstay to no more than _???_ inches at top of mast (I don't know what the correct number is, but I'd guess about 5 inches for a mast section that's 4 inches thick)?

Remember, you can pull lots of rope through your tackle before moving five inches at the top. Mark your tackle. Or better yet, clamp a stopper ball to the portside line to prevent pulling more than 10 inches (for example) thru the backstay block. Think about it - you'll recognize why we should relax the backstay once sails are down.