Missing flotation styrofoam

[PrairieMoon]

Just traded my Hobie 18 catamaran for a 1995 Mac 26S, and am looking forward to a whole new lifestyle. Sticking my head into the access ports, I noticed a lot of styrofoam crumbs. Then I remembered reading that this boat came with styrofoam flotation built in. Welp, it's gone now, and I don't know what it ever looked like.
So grateful for you all sharing your experienced opinions. Is it worth replacing the flotation, or should I skip it? Landlocked in Nebraska, there isn't much big water around.

[Russ]

Welcome to the forum and Mac ownership. Newest member buys pizza.

Quite a change from a Hobie cat.

Macgregor stuffed styrofoam EVERYWHERE. I'm not sure where on the S, but on the M it's tucked into any unusable space, including the forward V-berth center compartment. It's found between headliner and the deck. The factory just used scraps. Nothing special. Just scraps they stuffed into cavities.

I've never owned a boat that I didn't expect to sink if I put a hole in it. This "unsinkable" feature sounds nice, but I personally wouldn't depend much on it.

Many owners remove the foam, especially in places where storage is needed.
It's up to you.
You can save every piece of styrofoam from stuffs you buy and look for places to cram it into the boat's cavities, that would be the way to go.

Also, if you haven't already, head over to the Resources tab and download the manual for your boat
https://www.macgregorsailors.com/resources.html

[BillyBobV]

I have a 1991 26S and the foam looks like chunks of cheap icechest/cooler styrofoam. On mine it's between the liner and deck in the overhead area. It was a one owner boat before I bought it and have no reason to think the previous owner reduced the amount of foam in it.
FWIW

Cheers

[chipveres]

My Mac 22 came with four blocks of Styrofoam under the cockpit. Each block is a foot square and three feet long. The area under the v-berth is stuffed with scrap Styro. I didn't see any need to remove it so it is still there.

Chip V.
S/V Sand Dollar

[Stickinthemud57]

Echoing what others have said. Blocks of scrap styrofoam in the area above the galley, recess above the V-berths, in the bulkhead, and virtually anywhere it can be stuffed.

The styrofoam is supposedly essential to maintain the "un-sinkable" feature of this boat. It is designed to be self-righting, but without the extra flotation from the styrofoam is more likely to sink should it become completely swamped.

[JeffJuneau]

Does anyone know if the Styrofoam in our Macs has been treated with any sort of flame retardant? I realize that some other boats have foamed in place areas, but aren't loose Styrofoam pieces like this quite flammable?

[Russ]

Does anyone know if the Styrofoam in our Macs has been treated with any sort of flame retardant? I realize that some other boats have foamed in place areas, but aren't loose Styrofoam pieces like this quite flammable?

That would add a lot of cost and we know these boats were made at an affordable price point.
Frankly, fiberglass resin is quite flammable by itself. The fact that the foam all appear to be leftover scrap, I seriously doubt it is treated for fire retardant.

[bubby-joe]

I'd like to make a suggestion, the flat packs from the meat department come in different sizes, wash save and tape into bundles to add to areas where the flotation has broken down. Remember removing it could be bad for you or your loved ones. Better safe than the option, the water I sail in the water temp will probable kill me before I could reach shore as I have the glide ratio of a very large rock in the water. Just a thought stay safe don't take the risk if you can avoid it. I'd be more concerned with off gassing in the event of a fire stay up wind or get off if you can boats that burn most times stop at the water line.

[billder99]

Jumping into this thread late, but my 2-cents worth, a number of comments regarding foam:

1. The foam in these boats is definitely NOT fire treated... this is cheap open cell styrofoam, very flammable, will slowly absorb water.
2. If you get water in the area where the foam is stored, it will eventually absorb water, becoming useless as flotation material
3. In the bow and stern compartments where foam is stored and not designed for drainage, if the area gets moisture under the foam you could end up with a huge mold and mildew problem.
4. The MacGregor's are well tested as self-righting boats. The key to proper self righting is to prevent flooding below-decks in the event of a knockdown. You prevent flooding by keeping all hatches closed and latched when there is any chance of a knockdown (high wind & waves)... this includes the foredeck hatch, the cabin hatch, all cockpit lockers, any other place that can be opened and allow water intrusion.
5. A completely flooded cockpit will not sink the boat if the hatches are all closed and latched, but you need a way to drain the water... it will eventually drain out the cockpit drain, but you will be miserable while it does.
6. The only time the foam might be of use in flotation is if your cabin is completely flooded... assuming the foam is dry.

Conclusion: If you are a good sailor, you can avoid knockdowns. It take a LOT OF FORCE to knockdown a self righting sailboat. Reef sails early! Don't go out if the wind can be expected to have that much force. Don't go too far from shore, where you can't run to safety if an unexpected storm blows up (it happens). If you have a knockdown, you will not be in danger of sinking unless you leave hatches open... don't leave them open when you are sailing. In my opinion, the foam is not necessary except perhaps as "training wheels" for inexperienced (or incompetent) sailors.

[Wyb2]

billder99 - agree with most of what you said, 100% on the flammability and mold/mildew points.

Question though, any source on the styrofoam absorbing water? I’m sure it absorbs some with time, but how much and how long does it take? I would think it would need to be submerged for days or weeks to begin to take on any noticeable amount of water.

Also I think the foam is largely for the event that you hit something and put a nice big hole in the hull, more than taking water in from above.

[Herschel]

For what it is worth, on the 26X, the "spacious king sized" bunk under the cockpit, rather than becoming the owner's "master suite" is often used for general storage. We affectionately call it the "pizza oven". Don't know what the "S" is like under the cockpit, but since I was using it for storage, I just taped up 2-3 of those large very solid Styrofoam coolers like Omaha Steaks uses for their shipments and tossed them to the stern of the "oven". I store all my standard non-self-inflating life vests (as many as I can cram under there) in the bow under the anchor locker. I do still encounter the OEM equipped shards of Styrofoam in various voids, but I like to think I have given the old girl a little extra buoyancy to help make up for my toolbox, dual batteries, and various miscellaneous gear. Good luck and welcome aboard the forum...now that I think of it, instead of pizza, how about slinging me a couple of Omaha Steaks, and I'll send you the Styrofoam shipping container!

[dlandersson]

You are clearly one h--- of a trader.

Just traded my Hobie 18 catamaran for a 1995 Mac 26S,

[Russ]

All of the boats I've owned, I fully expected to sink if I put a hole any larger than a dime. I've seen how fast water 1' below the water line comes in a hole that size.

The floatation is a nice bonus, but I don't put much stock in it. It might keep my boat from going to the bottom and make it easier for salvage, but if the seas were anything but flat, I would expect a rolling mess floundering in the waves. Still better for rescue clinging to that than alone in a life jacket in the sea.

A prudent sailor prevents holes in their boat, keeps safety equipment onboard, and trains crew for emergencies. I'm a huge proponent for boating education courses.

The advice about closing hatches above is excellent. The safety record of Macgregor boats is largely because the hatches are high away from the waterline in the event of a knockdown. The X/M cockpits will drain in seconds.

The extremely few actual incidents of swamped Macs have been from overloading without ballast and open portholes below the gunwale. If you have one of those porthole mods, checking it needs to be on the top of your list before heading out.

[NiceAft]

If you have one of those porthole mods, checking it needs to be on the top of your list before heading out.

You are absolutely correct Russ.

I have operational ports both port and starboard. Once when intentionally heeling to extremes (it’s fun. The admiral enjoys it), I realized that both ports were open. I quickly told my number one to go below and close those ports. When she emerged from the cabin, I told her that there is a nautical term for the water coming in……….SINKING True story.

[OverEasy]

Part of my Dad’s refurbishment of a Starcraft 12 ft skiff was making 3 new benches from beautiful mahogany marine ply.
Once they were installed he flipped the boat upside down and filled the three seat cavities with expanding styrofoam.

When Dad signed us off for use of the skiff part of the deal was to demonstrate getting in/out of the boat away from shore, then swamp the boat, fully invert it, right it, row it a 100 yards swamped, and then clear the boat of all water, and continuously row it for 2 miles.
Later on when at the coast was single person surf launching and landing with waves at least twice the transom height.
Then we got to use the ScottAtWater 10 hp motor after getting our USCG small boat course & operator permits.

The upside of all that Dad had us accomplish has paid out substantial dividends on multiple occasions not only for my brothers and I but for several other people we have been able to help directly.

Even a small amount of flotation can go a long way to keep a swamped boat afloat.
A boat flooded is still a whole lot more visible than no boat at all.
A flooded floating boat can and does provide some additional measure of protection from the elements vs no shelter at all.
Thank you Rodger!

It makes a good point to think about all the stuff we pack into our vessels and the solid dead weight of engines (especially over size ones) and other items like batteries, A/C units, Generators, etc…
We like the idea of adding additional flotation that has a dual function.
We have been considering looking at adding compliant flotation foam bolstering to the otherwise wasted spaces along the upper unused hull spaces of the aft berth area. These are those nice foam pool loungers.
The use of foam filled coolers that can also store supplies is a nice idea too! (Hadn’t even thought of that one until reading this thread! Thank you!) Note: There have been numerous cases of people rescued after protracted periods of time clinging to their coolers! (Wonder if they stayed hydrated with the cooler contents?)

Styrofoam takes a long while to saturate if immersed. The fwd void area under the Vee berth of our Mac26X actually has at least two built in drains to the side bilges that work pretty well for those interested. The bottom of fwd void space is also about 6 inches higher than the side bilges so that also helps keep that space dry.

We’ve come to appreciate the styrofoam sheet blocks MacGregor utilized. To get some of the mods accomplished we have found that the blocks are easily removed and replaced to gain access to those spaces. If poured foam had been used it would have been a giant PITA!
Thank you Rodger!

As far as fire and flammability the enclosed flotation styrofoam is the very least of our concerns.
The general interior cushions and covers as provided from the factory s/b somewhat flame retardant (just like the RV types they were somewhat modeled after.) The fiberglass resins, nylon jackets sheets, sails and other stuff in addition to several gallons of gasoline are considerably greater flammable concerns than any enclosed flotation styrofoam…

Best Regards
Over Easy