Electric Vehicles and towing

[Starscream]

My daily driver Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid is easily the best car I've ever owned. 74,000 km so far over 4.5 years, and I've put in 14 tanks of gas in that time. There are a few little things that Ford could have done better, but overall the car is just about perfect. So well thought out, and looks good too.

A few months ago I was at my Ford dealer and I asked about the F-150 lightning. They said a current reservation holder might get it in 2025, but the reservation process was closed. Sure enough, I checked and Ford had removed the reservation link from their site.

As a replacement for the Fusion, I ordered an electric i4 about six months ago, but the dealer just called to say forget about it for 2023. They said 2024 if I'm lucky.

I was back at Ford yesterday, and started talking with the salesperson about the Lightning again. The manager heard us, and came over and to say he had just received a surprise extra allocation of three 2023 lightnings a few minutes ago, and he offered one to me, instead of going to his call list.

What, jump a queue of 3 years? That doesn't sound fair. Oh well, karma will get me later. I now have a 2023 F-150 Lightning Lariat on order with the tow technology package, and might actually get it in a few months.

Man, I'm feeling guilty about my first world problems. But you only live once, I guess.

Will be weird to have a truck as my daily driver. Feels wasteful, but on the other hand we have an 8.5 kW solar array on our house, which will take care of charging the truck, plus partial operation of the house. It's a grid-tie system so I use the provincial network as a battery, since Hydro Québec gives a 1:1 credit for surplus capacity produced. The downside to grid-tie is that your system has to shut itself down in a blackout, to protect the linemen doing repairs, so if the power is out, so is your solar.

One of the best parts of the Lightning is that it has a 240V output which can be connected to our house's generator sub-panel to run our fridges and lights through a blackout for up to two weeks. We get semi-frequent blackouts in our neck of the woods, especially with this new weather we've been having, and I've never liked firing up our gas generator...hot, smelly, loud, inefficient.

I'll be able to tow the Mac to the marina and back easily on EV power, and to some of our closer cruising grounds. For the longer trips we'll still use the Pathfinder, unless I become really confident in finding and using level 3 chargers along our highways, with a trailer attached. I haven't ever used level 3 charging, and my assumption is that the stations aren't set up for tow vehicles. It's hard enough trying to park at a Walmart with the Mac attached; I can't imagine trying to approach a perpendicular-park charging station array.

Kind of exciting. Weird feeling of guilt, though.

[NiceAft]

Starstream,

I didn't see mention of towing capacity.

Like many here, an electric tow vehicle is in my thoughts. My 2011 Acadia still has many miles before a replacement is needed; I hope


By the way, our 2005 Prius has over 220,000 miles (354,088 km) under its wheels.

My daily driver Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid is easily the best car I've ever owned. 74,000 km so far over 4.5 years,

[Starscream]

It's rated for 10k lbs towing. The Mac won't bother it too much, I think.

The Fusion has lost almost 20% of its electric range, but that being said I have done at least two full charging cycles per day, every day for 4.5 years.

[Russ]

Nice truck!

The reverse power is a nice feature.

I installed a large inverter in my Prius. I've read people doing this as a "generator" and run for a week on a tank of gas. So it's my backup generator and can run most of the critical functions of my house. Or simply use it as a portable generator.

My son has a big Duramax Diesel truck and found himself borrowing the Prius often this past year.

[dlandersson]

My daily driver Ford Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid is easily the best car I've ever owned. 74,000 km so far over 4.5 years, and I've put in 14 tanks of gas in that time. There are a few little things that Ford could have done better, but overall the car is just about perfect. So well thought out, and looks good too.

A few months ago I was at my Ford dealer and I asked about the F-150 lightning. They said a current reservation holder might get it in 2025, but the reservation process was closed. Sure enough, I checked and Ford had removed the reservation link from their site.

As a replacement for the Fusion, I ordered an electric i4 about six months ago, but the dealer just called to say forget about it for 2023. They said 2024 if I'm lucky.

[1st Sail]

I watched a truck channel post on FB a few weeks ago. They drove a Ford 150 EV pulling a 6k lb travel trailer from Denver to Colorado Springs. 100 miles was the limit between charges. With a Mac I presume you would get a little more distance. In any case at some point we will have batteries that have a capacity equal to a tank of fuel. Hopefully, current EV's will be upgradable in the future to more advance battery technology.

[pitchpolehobie]

I watched a truck channel post on FB a few weeks ago. They drove a Ford 150 EV pulling a 6k lb travel trailer from Denver to Colorado Springs. 100 miles was the limit between charges. With a Mac I presume you would get a little more distance. In any case at some point we will have batteries that have a capacity equal to a tank of fuel. Hopefully, current EV's will be upgradable in the future to more advance battery technology.

Ive considered an EV as well however for my case they arent practical. Many of the sailing destinations are remoteish and don't have quick chargers yet. Practically, a lot of the Tesla EV charging station lots are designed to pull in perpendicular to the charger with a row of cars. That might mean unhooking the boat trailer each charge to fit. Give it a few years or more.

[Russ]

I watched a truck channel post on FB a few weeks ago. They drove a Ford 150 EV pulling a 6k lb travel trailer from Denver to Colorado Springs.

A lot of weight....and a lot of mountains. My Duramax Truck doesn't like to pull my mac up mountain passes.

And yes, battery tech is evolving fast. The next gen of Tesla batteries will be massively better.

[Starscream]

Everyone who tows is worried about EV range, so I wonder why has no one created a trailer with 200 kWhr or so of structural batteries in the floor that can power the EV TowBeast. Seems like minimal engineering, but would make for an expensive trailer I suppose. The vehicle manufacturers could easily have a trailer plug standard that would allow the vehicle to receive power while towing.

Seems simple, but of course it isn't.

I've run into a problem with the F-150 idea... it's frkn huge. If I believe the dealer numbers, it's 232" long, which gives me 1/2" at the front and 1/2" at the rear in the garage, or rip out my entire workbench and shelving system. I'm not willing to park outside over the winter, so I gotta figure something out fast.

It's gonna look hilarious in the garage beside my wife's Mitsubishi Mirage 3-cylinder 1.0 liter micro-economy-car.

It's funny how I've got myself into two EV reservations, and the two vehicles that I have reserved are polar opposites. I still don't know which reservation I'll keep. Maybe none, maybe I'll just keep the Fusion. I have to decide soon tho.

[pitchpolehobie]

Towable battery interesting except most tow'ers miles are NOT with the trailer attached. During a time in my life when I was towing a lot for recreational nonwork related reasons maybe 1% of my miles were towing. So you pay the carbon cost of building the battery for the trailer and it then sits for long periods never actually helping draw down its very significant upfront material and carbon cost. I think the Tesla battery is what at least 10k?

I think if you were towing 100% of the time it would make sense. Certainly an interesting concept.

[Piddle and Futz]

Great topic.

Also in the market for a new vehicle, and towing our 24M is part of that equation.

I have a reservation for Tesla's Cybertruck (to be built about 25 miles away from here) but there's a big question as to when that will every truly be available. Like the F-150 Lightning, when towing expect that 300 mile range to be reduced by 40%-50%. It's a few hundred miles from here to the coast, with very few recharging stations along the way, so that's problematic.

We are using my current "beater", a 2002 Chevy Avalanche, as our tow vehicle. Does everything we need, but with 20 years and ~300K on it, I'm wary to trust it... and double wary of the gas bill for long hauls. We are keeping the boat and truck in storage in Corpus Christi for the season and driving my wife's Nissan Leaf back and forth on weekends. Just barely makes it. We found a free charger next to the marina and don't have to drive our truck far. So that's a good interim solution.

I've done some research on BEVs (pure electric) and PHEVs (plug-in hybrids) with respect to those that could tow our 26M. Have felt some pressure to purchase because of the change in tax rebates due to the new laws in the US, but low supply and inflated prices on anything electric is causing us to be patient and endure our current solution.

Here's a quick list of candidate vehicles I've considered along with brief remarks:

• Toyota RAV4 Prime: 2500 lbs. towing capacity (barely enough); 42 miles all-electric range
• Lincoln Aviator PHEV: 5600 lbs. towing capacity; only 21 miles all-electric range; PHEV only available in highest trim level; $$; poor gas efficiency
• Jeep Wrangler 4xe: 3500 lbs. towing capacity; only 21 miles all-electric range; few advanced features such as lane-keeping
• Jeep Cherokee 4xe: same mechanicals as Wrangler 4xe, nicer inside; $$

As you may note, all of these are PHEV SUVs. Aside from the utter lack of pure electrics that can tow, I'm driven to these types based on these factors:

• 1. Hybrids don't suffer from range limitations. Just fill up anywhere like a normal vehicle.
  2. I work from home and don't drive much, so plugging in and not buying gas for most my driving is attractive.
  3. Need a utility vehicle for ranch work.
  4. Would like to consolidate down to 1 vehicle that can meet all my needs.

Principally, I really dislike the concept of hybrids. They are even more complex than normal combustion vehicles, so there's more to break. (Pure electric vehicles are mechanically very simple.) When the battery is depleted, gas mileage is worse than a combustion engine because you're hauling around a now useless heavy battery.

There are some other BEV sedans that could theoretically tow our boat short distances. Just personally not interested in those as they are less truck-like.


Long term, I think that Tesla truck (or F-150 lightning, if I could get one) will work fine. Charging infrastructure is being added fairly rapidly and will only get better over time. May end up tossing our gas generator in back as insurance in case we get stranded.

[Starscream]

My truck was scheduled for production completion about 10 days ago.

Then a Lightning caught fire during routine testing and burned out two other trucks nearby. So Ford issued a stop-production / stop-ship order and closed down the production plant. 700 workers to take care of! Production has been stopped since. Imagine the logistics nightmare that move must have caused.

The dealership told me that my truck is built and ready to ship, having avoided the fire. Just waiting for Ford and SK to figure out what went wrong and if remedial action needs to be taken before shipments resume.

Ah, the cost of being an early adopter.

[NiceAft]

Ah, the cost of being an early adopter.

Someone has to be the guinea pig.

On behalf of us all, thank you.

[Be Free]

My F150 is a '95. I think most of the bugs have been worked out by now.

[Starscream]

My F150 is a '95. I think most of the bugs have been worked out by now.

That's EXACTLY why I bought the Lightning. Coulda waited for the Cybertruck or the Ram REV, but I prefer to minimize the amount of "new" tech that I have to experiment with. The vast majority of parts are the same as the ICE F-150's, and all of the standard F-150 aftermarket accessories fit just fine. I've been driving a Ford PHEV for 5 years now and it's sooo good that I'm comfortable to go with the Lightning. The Ram REV originally looked like it was going to be a whole new platform with a ton of crazy features, so I steered clear. They just released production photos of a truck that looks much more normal, almost like a regular Ram, so maybe they're going down the same path as Ford.

I can't wait. Dealer says it's built, they just haven't updated the tracker site since the factory fire.