Forestay turnbuckle safetying

[Shane anthony]

Hi everyone, it’s probably my lack of knowledge but can anyone tell me how to secure the forestry turnbuckle? I was under the impression that after securing it you’d want it to still be able to spin freely? I’m thinking for the ability to adjust it without having to remove anything you’ve put to secure it. I sat working on this for a couple hours swearing pinching my fingers with needle nose pliers trying various things like bending cotter rings cotter pins, saw something about using seizing wire so I ran down to West Marine and bought some seizing wire 0.041 size 10’ $18. So after bending and looping seizing wire in various ways trying to secure it so it’s not possible for the turnbuckle to come apart while having it be able to spine freely without it grabbing what I put in the tiny holes or just looking unsafe was a failure. I put a cotter ring through the hole and was thinking I’ll have to remove them to adjust but at least it’s clean looking and doesn’t leave me guessing if the turnbuckle could come apart and drop the mast on someone’s head. But I was surprised at how little effort it takes to bend a cotter ring to a useless and unsafe situation. My turnbuckle treads about 3/4” on both sides and was thinking is it even possible for a turnbuckle to come undone anyway? Probably spent way to much time obsessing on this one thing but at least for me at this beginning stage of sailing it’s way easier to have things be very cut and dry and not leave me wondering about if the little twisted pieces of wire or pins in a very tight space won’t break or protrude enough to stop a catastrophe. Any tried and true options that don’t involve needle nose pliers and little bits of twisted wire would be appreciated very much Thank You as always.

[Russ]

Do you have a furling jib or a hank on jib.

Firstly, once you get your rigging tuned, it should be set and forget. I've NEVER adjusted my rigging after I got it adjusted. I simply unpin and re-pin the forestay when raising the mast.

The turnbuckle (if you don't have a fuller) should be pinned with something. The ring dings have the advantage of no pointy bits to catch on sails etc.
The fuller, as I recall, had some nuts and lock nuts to adjust tension and lock it in place.

[Be Free]

Hi everyone, it’s probably my lack of knowledge but can anyone tell me how to secure the forestry turnbuckle? I was under the impression that after securing it you’d want it to still be able to spin freely? I’m thinking for the ability to adjust it without having to remove anything you’ve put to secure it. I sat working on this for a couple hours swearing pinching my fingers with needle nose pliers trying various things like bending cotter rings cotter pins, saw something about using seizing wire so I ran down to West Marine and bought some seizing wire 0.041 size 10’ $18. So after bending and looping seizing wire in various ways trying to secure it so it’s not possible for the turnbuckle to come apart while having it be able to spine freely without it grabbing what I put in the tiny holes or just looking unsafe was a failure. I put a cotter ring through the hole and was thinking I’ll have to remove them to adjust but at least it’s clean looking and doesn’t leave me guessing if the turnbuckle could come apart and drop the mast on someone’s head. But I was surprised at how little effort it takes to bend a cotter ring to a useless and unsafe situation. My turnbuckle treads about 3/4” on both sides and was thinking is it even possible for a turnbuckle to come undone anyway? Probably spent way to much time obsessing on this one thing but at least for me at this beginning stage of sailing it’s way easier to have things be very cut and dry and not leave me wondering about if the little twisted pieces of wire or pins in a very tight space won’t break or protrude enough to stop a catastrophe. Any tried and true options that don’t involve needle nose pliers and little bits of twisted wire would be appreciated very much Thank You as always.

Shane,
We may be using the terms differently, but to my way of thinking a turnbuckle that has been secured will not, by definition, be able to spin freely.

I can't remember the last time I had to adjust any of my turnbuckles. Once they are adjusted they get secured and then they don't change. These are not high-performance race boats where the tension on the stays gets adjusted with every shift of the wind. Our stays are pretty much "set it and forget it". The next time I expect to turn any of them is the next time I replace my stays.

You can use seizing wire or split rings to secure them once they are adjusted. The split ring is easier to remove and can be reused if you find you need to change the adjustment after all. Seizing wire is good but I would be more likely to use it on an anchor shackle or someplace where I never expect to have to remove it unless the part is being replaced.

In answer to your question, yes, it is possible and even probable that a turnbuckle could come undone. The repeated tension and subsequent release on your stays can loosen them. The ring or the seizing wire just keeps it from turning more than a small portion of a turn. There is a good chance you would notice the slack in the stay before it became dangerous but why take the chance? Even at $1.80 a foot it's cheap insurance.

I use split rings on my turnbuckles. Don't forget to wrap whatever you use with tape if there is any chance it could snag on anything.

[Shane anthony]

Do you have a furling jib or a hank on jib.

Firstly, once you get your rigging tuned, it should be set and forget. I've NEVER adjusted my rigging after I got it adjusted. I simply unpin and re-pin the forestay when raising the mast.

The turnbuckle (if you don't have a fuller) should be pinned with something. The ring dings have the advantage of no pointy bits to catch on sails etc.
The fuller, as I recall, had some nuts and lock nuts to adjust tension and lock it in place.

I have a furling jib, from an explanation of the set up I posted a pic and think I understand now. Thank You for the reply and your thoughts.

[Shane anthony]

Hi everyone, it’s probably my lack of knowledge but can anyone tell me how to secure the forestry turnbuckle? I was under the impression that after securing it you’d want it to still be able to spin freely? I’m thinking for the ability to adjust it without having to remove anything you’ve put to secure it. I sat working on this for a couple hours swearing pinching my fingers with needle nose pliers trying various things like bending cotter rings cotter pins, saw something about using seizing wire so I ran down to West Marine and bought some seizing wire 0.041 size 10’ $18. So after bending and looping seizing wire in various ways trying to secure it so it’s not possible for the turnbuckle to come apart while having it be able to spine freely without it grabbing what I put in the tiny holes or just looking unsafe was a failure. I put a cotter ring through the hole and was thinking I’ll have to remove them to adjust but at least it’s clean looking and doesn’t leave me guessing if the turnbuckle could come apart and drop the mast on someone’s head. But I was surprised at how little effort it takes to bend a cotter ring to a useless and unsafe situation. My turnbuckle treads about 3/4” on both sides and was thinking is it even possible for a turnbuckle to come undone anyway? Probably spent way to much time obsessing on this one thing but at least for me at this beginning stage of sailing it’s way easier to have things be very cut and dry and not leave me wondering about if the little twisted pieces of wire or pins in a very tight space won’t break or protrude enough to stop a catastrophe. Any tried and true options that don’t involve needle nose pliers and little bits of twisted wire would be appreciated very much Thank You as always.

Shane,
We may be using the terms differently, but to my way of thinking a turnbuckle that has been secured will not, by definition, be able to spin freely.

I can't remember the last time I had to adjust any of my turnbuckles. Once they are adjusted they get secured and then they don't change. These are not high-performance race boats where the tension on the stays gets adjusted with every shift of the wind. Our stays are pretty much "set it and forget it". The next time I expect to turn any of them is the next time I replace my stays.

You can use seizing wire or split rings to secure them once they are adjusted. The split ring is easier to remove and can be reused if you find you need to change the adjustment after all. Seizing wire is good but I would be more likely to use it on an anchor shackle or someplace where I never expect to have to remove it unless the part is being replaced.

In answer to your question, yes, it is possible and even probable that a turnbuckle could come undone. The repeated tension and subsequent release on your stays can loosen them. The ring or the seizing wire just keeps it from turning more than a small portion of a turn. There is a good chance you would notice the slack in the stay before it became dangerous but why take the chance? Even at $1.80 a foot it's cheap insurance.

I use split rings on my turnbuckles. Don't forget to wrap whatever you use with tape if there is any chance it could snag on anything.

Okay I think I understand now Thank you! Does this look correct?

[leefrankpierce]

I hope that i correct, it is how mine is set up.

[Russ]

Okay I think I understand now Thank you! Does this look correct?

If I recall, mine has nuts (x2) on the threads to prevent the stay from moving.

I think those ring dings would do it. Hard to tell from the pic

[DaveC426913]

Hi everyone, it’s probably my lack of knowledge but can anyone tell me how to secure the forestry turnbuckle?

:stress rising: (is this something I'm supposed to be checking but aren't?)

Firstly, once you get your rigging tuned, it should be set and forget. I've NEVER adjusted my rigging after I got it adjusted. I simply unpin and re-pin the forestay when raising the mast.

:stress subsiding:

[Be Free]

As long as the rings are large enough and strong enough to keep the turnbuckle from rotating freely that should be fine.

[Shane anthony]

Okay I think I understand now Thank you! Does this look correct?

If I recall, mine has nuts (x2) on the threads to prevent the stay from moving.

I think those ring dings would do it. Hard to tell from the pic

Hi, would that be two nuts per thread for a total of 4? I’d have to order left handed nuts to do it. Thanks for the reply

[leefrankpierce]

The rings would be enough to keep the turnbuckle from finally backing all the way off.
They seem to be enough to keep the turnbuckle from rotating at all, but I could see them being bent and allowing it.
In practice, the turnbuckle seems to have enough friction to stay where it is, especially if you have it bottomed out like the pict appears to be.
Any one have an experience where it backed off and let go?
Do not remember anyone ever mentioning it.

[Russ]

Hi, would that be two nuts per thread for a total of 4? I’d have to order left handed nuts to do it. Thanks for the reply

Ah...right. The turnbuckle has left handed nuts.

I don't have a turnbuckle. So disregard my comments.

I have the threaded piece from the headstay that attaches to the fuller. If memory serves, it then uses nuts to adjust the tension and a second to lock it in place.

Not a good photo, but this is what mine looks like. No turnbuckle. The nuts are below the U bracket (see arrow).
So mine is different from yours apparently.

[Shane anthony]

Hi, would that be two nuts per thread for a total of 4? I’d have to order left handed nuts to do it. Thanks for the reply

Ah...right. The turnbuckle has left handed nuts.

I don't have a turnbuckle. So disregard my comments.

I have the threaded piece from the headstay that attaches to the fuller. If memory serves, it then uses nuts to adjust the tension and a second to lock it in place.

Not a good photo, but this is what mine looks like. No turnbuckle. The nuts are below the U bracket (see arrow).
So mine is different from yours apparently.

Sure, thanks for the replies. Sounds like if I use loctite, ring dings, cotter keys seizing wire and left and right threaded nuts I should be fine seriously though thanks.

[LordElsinore]

this is what mine looks like. No turnbuckle. The nuts are below the U bracket (see arrow).
So mine is different from yours apparently.

Yep, I believe Russ' is a Mac furler (like mine) and Shane's looks to be a CDI furler

[Starscream]

Sure, thanks for the replies. Sounds like if I use loctite, ring dings, cotter keys seizing wire and left and right threaded nuts I should be fine seriously though thanks.

Here's a link to a PPT that I made trying to document the assembly of the CDI furler:

https://1drv.ms/p/s!Ag0w1ybOLvphkuk4dK1 ... Q?e=dQZ0y3

In comparison to mine, yours is cranked down waaaay tighter, so your actual forestay must be longer than mine. If my turnbuckle was like yours, there would be no way that I could pin it in place.