Another reason to love Macgregor - NOT

[Paul S]

Finally got an official reply from the factory about getting a hollow mast or one with a channel in it for our 26M....as the webpage promotes

Here is their reply:
"I'm sorry we can not deliver a mast without the flotation foam in place. This is an engineering and safety issue. At present we have no way of installing a wire race. Some customers, I understand, have used a sharpened PVC tube or a copper electrical tube to auger a hole through the three foam blocks. The 12" blocks are at the top, the upper shrouds and at the spreaders, making two chambers.
We caution that care must be taken to reseal the chambers, especially at the top. However, we do not authorize any modification."

As a refresher...this is from their website:
"A small tube will be cast into the mast flotation foam to allow the future passage of wires to the top of the mast."

btw - here is the service depts email address: [email protected]

Just keeps getting better

Paul

[mike]

At present we have no way of installing a wire race.

Well, you service/engineering folks might want to send a memo pointing this out to the marketing department!

The 12" blocks are at the top, the upper shrouds and at the spreaders, making two chambers.[/quote]
Interesting... for some reason, I thought the entire mast was filled. Getting through the 3 12" sections shouldn't be too hard, but then again, you shouldn't have to deal with it... let the dealer do it!

--Mike

[Paul S]

At present we have no way of installing a wire race.

Well, you service/engineering folks might want to send a memo pointing this out to the marketing department!

The 12" blocks are at the top, the upper shrouds and at the spreaders, making two chambers.

Interesting... for some reason, I thought the entire mast was filled. Getting through the 3 12" sections shouldn't be too hard, but then again, you shouldn't have to deal with it... let the dealer do it!

--Mike[/quote]

The dealer said he would take care of it. But I would like to know how they know it is 12" since it is expanding foam. I suspect it is more. Trying to snake a 30' mast with pockets of rock hard foam can not be fun.

But we will see what happens.

Just trying to give notice to future M owners to make sure their agreement has a clause to ensure the dealer runs a line/channel for them. The superior customer service at Macgregor has to be noted as well.

Paul

[craiglaforce]

I think maybe after that tragic july 4th accident a year and a half ago on lake Champlain that killed the children when the boat turned turtle, there was probably a lot of legal liability concerns about the boat. I think that's when they decided to have a new design with some permanent ballast and some flotation in the mast. From a liability standpoint I can understand their not wanting to make any modification to these safety systems, no matter how minor. But why they would advertise it with the mast channel is beyond me. And it sure seems like they could still have the flotation foam and sealed air chambers if the foam is shot in after the mast wire channel is in place. Lack of coordination between marketing and the designer? Who knows?
Seems like they are pawning off the liability on a dealer to do the retrofit. Doesn't inspire much confidence.

[Mark Prouty]

The above post is from me.

[Paul S]

I think maybe after that tragic july 4th accident a year and a half ago on lake Champlain that killed the children when the boat turned turtle, there was probably a lot of legal liability concerns about the boat. I think that's when they decided to have a new design with some permanent ballast and some flotation in the mast. From a liability standpoint I can understand their not wanting to make any modification to these safety systems, no matter how minor. But why they would advertise it with the mast channel is beyond me. And it sure seems like they could still have the flotation foam and sealed air chambers if the foam is shot in after the mast wire channel is in place. Lack of coordination between marketing and the designer? Who knows?
Seems like they are pawning off the liability on a dealer to do the retrofit. Doesn't inspire much confidence.

I am not a boat engineer..They could install a channel and cap it at both ends, or shoot a bit of foam to seal it up to maintain a leak free seal.

Seems like an easy thing to do.

Does anyone know what the solvent for the foam would be? Maybe we can just disolve the foam chemically.

So for now...any potential M owners....make your dealer put a channel in before delivery.

Paul

[Steve K]

Craig wrote----------------------
Lack of coordination between marketing and the designer? Who knows?
----------------------------------

Craig,
You make it sound like (or aren't aware) MacGregor is one of those large corps. Nope!

Head of marketing dept............ Roger MacGregor
Head of design dept...................Roger MacGregor
Head of Production dept............ .Roger MacGregor

There's a good 20 or so people at the factory on any given day. Most of whom are working the production line.
It's nothing like one would picture in their mind, when they think "world's largest producer of trailerable sailboats".

sk

[Tom Root]

And that's a fact Steve Years ago I was in the factory picking up a part in the '80's, and saw Roger for the first time. I was talking to the Secretary/Receptionist and Roger popped out of his office to ask whether she agreed with his choice of pattern for interior cushions. He was brief, and popped back into his office to continue working. The main reason our boats cost less than many others, is that he works with an efficent, and well managed system. He is "Hands on" and I respect that! He is a good buisnessman, excellent designer, and builder. He has given the public exactly what they wanted. That being.... an inexpensive way to own your own boat! I regret that Paul was given a bad bill of goods here, but in defense, I'd say this is extremely rare. And I hope he gets appropriate resolution. As we see by the extreme amount of traffic this one man's problem has generated. If someone gets excellent services or products.....they tell their friends, and in contrast if one gets poor services or product....they tell everyone!

Paul S.- I highly reccomend NOT using any type of solvent on that foam to remove it, sounds too messy to me. And what material is the mast made of? As was said by the factory, use a pipe to bore it out. In your particular case you said that the dealer was going to do it for you as the mast was not delivered as you specified in the contract, correct? As far as a channel, remember to stay as light as you can, thinwall aluminum, or carbon fiber would be my choice, as any weight aloft, you will pay a penalty in performance etc. And as you stated, after you install it, seal off both ends with foam to waterproof it!

[Paul S]

That being.... an inexpensive way to own your own boat, at a reasonable price. I regret that Paul was given a bad bill of goods here, but in defense, I'd say this is extremely rare. And I hope he gets appropriate resolution. As we see by the extreme amount of traffic this one man's problem has generated. If someone gets excellent services or products.....they tell their friends, and in contrast if one gets poor services or product....they tell everyone!

Paul S.- I highly reccomend NOT using any tpe of solvent on that foam to remove it, sounds to messy to me. And what material is the mast made of? As was said by the factory, use a pipe to bore it out. In your particular case you said that the dealer was going to do it for you as the mast was not delivered as you specified in the contract, correct? As far as a channel, remember to stay as light as you can, thinwall aluminum, or carbon fiber would be my choice, as any weight aloft, you will pay a penalty in performance etc. And as you stated, after you install it, seal off both ends with foam to waterproof it!

I don't think I got a bad product..It appears that I got something on-par with Macgregor quality, from all that I have read and is not unusual. I just think that more care could have been taken at the factory and especially at the dealer. What I got out of the 100 post thread I started was - "quit whining and deal with it..it is a macgregor"

The mast thing is just stupid. If how they build their website is indicative of how they build boats...I am scared...It has been over a year now and the page hasn't been updated.

Yes, it is in my contract. I made sure of it after reading about the foam. I don't plan on leaving anything in the channel. Maybe Just get a wire pair or 2 up the mast with a string for any future use. Maybe replace the mast light with a mastlight/foredeck light while the mast is apart.

I showed the boat to a friend of mine and he asked what was wrong with the gelcoat. I showed him the swirl marks and he was blown away. You really need to see it in person to appreciate it. Pictures do not do it justice.

Going to assume they can fix everything to my satisfaction (unlikely), I will go forward and install the boatload of stuff I bought for the boat already.

I am a bit obsessive compulsive. I admit it. But being from New England..I expect quality and value. Just feel let down. But I will have to get over it.

Paul

[Tom Root]

John,
I would only hope that the foam in the mast is for easy recovery in the event of a knockdown. The ballast should not allow going full turtle. But, there are those who sail unballasted, and don't quite judge the conditions, and well... get these results! I have had many knockdowns decades ago on sailing dinghys. Dousing the sails helped right them, but the water weight in the mast made it difficult at times in doing so! Of course the only leverage on that vessel was to stand on the centerboard to be successful!

I helped a sailor once who was demasted (don't recall brand) it was a 24' sloop, that lost it's mast at a mooring at Catalina Island. I saw him struggling to get his mast up on deck as I was sailing by. It was intact, but lost his port shrouds. We ended up removing all stays, and worked like bears to get that bugger up! Waiting patiently for the mast to drain, and inching it back on deck was quite a chore! It took about 2 hours...in perfect conditions to accomplish this task! So, in theory, having a mast sealed is a good thing. It would just be a good idea to run an internal race (channel) first to run neccasary electrics etc. for future upgrades/maintenance reasons....IMHO!

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

"I'm sorry we can not deliver a mast without the flotation foam in place. This is an engineering and safety issue. At present we have no way of installing a wire race."

Give me a break, glue up 3 10' sections of 1/2" PVC, insert in mast, then, squirt in foam. That the factory says they can't do as they advertise is silly. They're just to lazy or it's to hard to explain in spanish. My guess is they bought a truckload of them and are to cheap to retrofit them. Once they are used up the next load will be done right as long as it doesn't cost more money.

MacGregor re-defines the term "Low Budget Operation". Roger is first and foremost a penny pinching businessman. It takes a major act of god to change anything that increases his costs. The design and features of the boat are completely secondary to the bottom line.

But I love their cheap boats.

Don't expect the web site to ever change. They only do that every 7 years when a new model comes out or get sued for false advertising, which ever comes first.

[Paul S]

"I'm sorry we can not deliver a mast without the flotation foam in place. This is an engineering and safety issue. At present we have no way of installing a wire race."

Give me a break, glue up 3 10' sections of 1/2" PVC, insert in mast, then, squirt in foam. That the factory says they can't do as they advertise is silly. They're just to lazy or it's to hard to explain in spanish. My guess is they bought a truckload of them and are to cheap to retrofit them. Once they are used up the next load will be done right as long as it doesn't cost more money.

Thats what I say. What could the PVC channel cost - $10 at the most? Now the dealer has to pay his contractor 4+ hours labor (or however long) to undo what the mfr did.

I just can't belive that the factory (and dealers) are not getting pounded with requests for this. Am I the first person that wants to install an anchor light or a VHF antenna on an M?

Oh well

Paul

[mike]

I think Duane nailed it... MacGregor bought a bunch of masts, and forgot to specify the wire channel be included.

--Mike

[Paul S]

I think Duane nailed it... MacGregor bought a bunch of masts, and forgot to specify the wire channel be included.

--Mike

For an entire calendar year Damn. They need to get their act together.

[Mark Prouty]

"I'm sorry we can not deliver a mast without the flotation foam in place. This is an engineering and safety issue. At present we have no way of installing a wire race."

My guess is they bought a truckload of them and are to cheap to retrofit them. Once they are used up the next load will be done right as long as it doesn't cost more money.

If Roger is really doing this, he is not being truthful. He is forcing marketing to perpetuate misinformation. Roger wouldn't do this would he? Could he create this kind of working environment and be less than truthful to the public. Say it isn't so! The amount of money it would cost to fix this wouldn't be worth the bad PR? There has to be a legimate reason why this mast foam problem has happened and not been corrected before the consumer takes title! Maybe he has instructed the dealers to fix the problem and this one hasn't.

Roger, if you read this, defend yourself!!