Pretty nasty story of a boat capsize on Lake George yesterday in NY.
There were 21 drownings of elderly people, within 150 yards of shore.
It was a 40 foot boat with 38 people on board, water temperature 68F.
Wear those PFDs.......
WEAR (dont just carry) those PFDs - 21 drowned in NY
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Terry
- Admiral
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:35 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada. '03 26M - New Yamaha 70
LifeJackets?
LifeJackets?
Well, I don't make way until I have my lifejacket on and crew as well. Even though in my younger years I made it to lifeguard status and was a good strong swimmer I am no longer of the same youth. Still I have all the swimming skills to survive but I wear a lifeJacket just the same, the last thing I want to have to worry about is staying afloat, I'll let the lifejacket do that while I try and grab a trailing line or something. I am amazed at how many people I see heading out to sea from the same marina as me without their lifejackets on, even much older ones. There seems to be a very cavalier attitude when it comes to lifejackets, god only knows why. When I took a power squadron course I remember the instructor telling us that he kept his stowed below in a green garbage bag to keep it new looking for years to come. He also mentioned that it should be a bright color and easily accessible in case the law showed up. When I mentioned mine was black with blue striping my classmates were quick to point out that they would want to be wearing a color that could be seen. I wondered how many of them even wore their lifejackets, even though mine is not bright orange I still wear it and it still works. It won't stay new looking because I'll soon wear it out and replace it, likely with something more colorful. But I can say that I do wear one and it will save my life. Even good strong swimmers die from drowning but probably wouldn't have had they been wearing a lifejacket.
Well, I don't make way until I have my lifejacket on and crew as well. Even though in my younger years I made it to lifeguard status and was a good strong swimmer I am no longer of the same youth. Still I have all the swimming skills to survive but I wear a lifeJacket just the same, the last thing I want to have to worry about is staying afloat, I'll let the lifejacket do that while I try and grab a trailing line or something. I am amazed at how many people I see heading out to sea from the same marina as me without their lifejackets on, even much older ones. There seems to be a very cavalier attitude when it comes to lifejackets, god only knows why. When I took a power squadron course I remember the instructor telling us that he kept his stowed below in a green garbage bag to keep it new looking for years to come. He also mentioned that it should be a bright color and easily accessible in case the law showed up. When I mentioned mine was black with blue striping my classmates were quick to point out that they would want to be wearing a color that could be seen. I wondered how many of them even wore their lifejackets, even though mine is not bright orange I still wear it and it still works. It won't stay new looking because I'll soon wear it out and replace it, likely with something more colorful. But I can say that I do wear one and it will save my life. Even good strong swimmers die from drowning but probably wouldn't have had they been wearing a lifejacket.
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McSkipper
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:40 am
- Location: San Dimas, CA to Bullhead City, AZ
Terry wrote:
I belong to USPS District 13, LA & the Inland Empire. We have sailboat races monthly. Any boat having a member not wearing a PFD is automatically disqualified. We do believe in what we teach. I'm not perfect about it, but mine is either on me
or on the cockpit seat 
Sometimes the strength of a swimmer has nothing to do with survival. A sailor feel overboard last year during a yacht club race. By the time his boat got to him, he did not have the strength to climb aboard. The cold water can be a fast killer. And that was in Long Beach harbor!
I agree with Catagil, "Wear those PFD's!"
BTW, the monthly district races now have a special race just for Macs if there are at least 3 participating.
As a USPS member and instructor I guess it doesn't surprise me but I'm sorry to hear that one bozo made such a bad impression on you and others.When I took a power squadron course I remember the instructor telling us that he kept his stowed below in a green garbage bag to keep it new looking for years to come. He also mentioned that it should be a bright color and easily accessible in case the law showed up.
I belong to USPS District 13, LA & the Inland Empire. We have sailboat races monthly. Any boat having a member not wearing a PFD is automatically disqualified. We do believe in what we teach. I'm not perfect about it, but mine is either on me
or on the cockpit seat Sometimes the strength of a swimmer has nothing to do with survival. A sailor feel overboard last year during a yacht club race. By the time his boat got to him, he did not have the strength to climb aboard. The cold water can be a fast killer. And that was in Long Beach harbor!
I agree with Catagil, "Wear those PFD's!"
BTW, the monthly district races now have a special race just for Macs if there are at least 3 participating.
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kmclemore
- Site Admin
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- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Ambler, PA -- MACX2018A898 w/ Suzuki DF60AV -- 78 BW Harpoon 4.6 -- 2018 Tahoe 550TF w/ 150 Merc
Yeah, I'll bet the dock looked like a snowstorm hit it, with all the lawyer's business cards flying around in a swirling wind. No life jackets on, not enough crew, likely inappropriate boat handling and failure to avoid a catastrophe... $$$... "Cha-ching"...$$$... I hear some serious money changing hands very soon.Catigale wrote:....the pool of tort saliva is already making the Hudson run at high tide...
Oh, and who will pay in the end? Us, my friends, when our marine insurance rates go up.
Anyone heard if the tour boat company had any money?
The flocking lawyers will disperse like pigeons from a dog if they find out their prey and associated insurance have shallow pockets.
"Cha-ching"...$$$... I hear some serious money changing hands very soon.
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Tony D-26X_SusieQ
- First Officer
- Posts: 306
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:20 am
- Location: Mayo, Maryland
Re: Anyone heard if the tour boat company had any money?
Now come on guys! Those lawers are only thinking about the welfare of their potential clients. They don't have their own selfish interests in mind at all.Robert wrote:The flocking lawyers will disperse like pigeons from a dog if they find out their prey and associated insurance have shallow pockets."Cha-ching"...$$$... I hear some serious money changing hands very soon.
Though I did hear a vicious rumor that 5 of them have ordered new BMW's for some mysterious reason. -
Chip Hindes
- Admiral
- Posts: 2166
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:13 am
- Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu
It's not "an old state standard" which put the capacity certification weight at 145 lbs per adult passenger, it's current U.S. Coast Guard Regs. Since state laws are nearly all based on USCG certs, that boat would have been legal in any of the 50 states.
There is a lot of misinformation being published about this incident.
Although there is mounting evidence that the boat was badly overloaded with 47 passengers, 50 was the legal certification. There were no sliding lawn type chairs; the people sat on fixed benches. Every indication is there were adequate PFDs, and there is no State or Federal requirement that PFDs be worn by adults on a boat of that size. There is at least at present no evidence the boat was illegally "buzzed" by a larger or faster boat throwing up a big wake.
It appears the only law violated was a rather obscure state law requirement for an additional crew member for a group of over 25; the max fine for this violation is $100. Lets's face facts: it's vanishingly likely that compliance with that law would have made a bit of difference.
Call me a cynic, but I seriously doubt the fact that the only violation was a technical one carrying a small fine is going to slow the liability lawyers down one bit.
There is a lot of misinformation being published about this incident.
Although there is mounting evidence that the boat was badly overloaded with 47 passengers, 50 was the legal certification. There were no sliding lawn type chairs; the people sat on fixed benches. Every indication is there were adequate PFDs, and there is no State or Federal requirement that PFDs be worn by adults on a boat of that size. There is at least at present no evidence the boat was illegally "buzzed" by a larger or faster boat throwing up a big wake.
It appears the only law violated was a rather obscure state law requirement for an additional crew member for a group of over 25; the max fine for this violation is $100. Lets's face facts: it's vanishingly likely that compliance with that law would have made a bit of difference.
Call me a cynic, but I seriously doubt the fact that the only violation was a technical one carrying a small fine is going to slow the liability lawyers down one bit.
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richandlori
- Admiral
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I went out and bought the expensive auto-inflate/manual SOS West marine life jackets. Did I really need two of them for $350, NO, but I know myself, and the added comfort will make sure I always have it on. Also the thought of blowing $350 on two PFD's and then NOT using them keeps them on my back.
The Kids simply have no choice and they are at the point now that they tell eachother to "get their PFD's on" when we get out of the car, so that they have them on at the dock, which is required (by ME) for a 8 and 7 year old.
Rich
The Kids simply have no choice and they are at the point now that they tell eachother to "get their PFD's on" when we get out of the car, so that they have them on at the dock, which is required (by ME) for a 8 and 7 year old.
Rich
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Chip Hindes
- Admiral
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- Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu
Those are good points, Rich. Especially the part about the kids on the dock. Our yacht club has the same policy. I'll bet more people fall in the water off the dock than from the boat.
We have the same West Marine/SOSpenders auto inflators.
Almost two years ago mine went off perfectly after a surprise dinghy capsize (Aren't they all?) Perfectly calm Spring day, lake smooth as glass, mine was the only boat in operation. One second I was in the dinghy, the next I was in the water with the dinghy inverted over my head (and the motor still running, though not for long). Even though the PFD deployed instantly, I swallowed a good bit of lake water. Who knows, it may have saved my life. Though the water was dang cold, I was no more than 10' from the dock, so everything turned out OK, no permanent damage to me, the dinghy or motor. The cell phone needed a new battery but I'm still using it so I can now laugh about it. Sort of.
I always wear my PFD when singlehanding, in bad weather, or when the air and water temps start to drop. You know, though, despite that indcident, I have a tendency to rationalize not wearing it in good weather or when a dunking seems unlikely.
Lake George is right up the road from us. The incident there is making me reconsider.
We have the same West Marine/SOSpenders auto inflators.
Almost two years ago mine went off perfectly after a surprise dinghy capsize (Aren't they all?) Perfectly calm Spring day, lake smooth as glass, mine was the only boat in operation. One second I was in the dinghy, the next I was in the water with the dinghy inverted over my head (and the motor still running, though not for long). Even though the PFD deployed instantly, I swallowed a good bit of lake water. Who knows, it may have saved my life. Though the water was dang cold, I was no more than 10' from the dock, so everything turned out OK, no permanent damage to me, the dinghy or motor. The cell phone needed a new battery but I'm still using it so I can now laugh about it. Sort of.
I always wear my PFD when singlehanding, in bad weather, or when the air and water temps start to drop. You know, though, despite that indcident, I have a tendency to rationalize not wearing it in good weather or when a dunking seems unlikely.
Lake George is right up the road from us. The incident there is making me reconsider.