How to handle crew over board?

[adm]

How do you handle problem of retrieving disoriented, weaken crew from water on Mac 26 in difficult conditions - taking into account its high sides, small inertia, drifting in the wind etc...
Did anyone give any serious thought how to do it? - best tactics when sailing or motoring in heavy weather, course and direction of approach, stoping and maintaining steady position, recovery of limp and weak person, other variables.
How do you practice this manuever? Maybe real life experience to share.

[Moe]

Perhaps these will help answer some questions...

Man Overboard

How to get MOB back into an X????

MOB for real

[adm]

Moe,

Thank you for very prompt reply and links. I did some searching on this site too. I got more question then answers and tried to revive this impotant topic. I am interested in specific details what is working and what is not in regard of Mac handling.
I did not see it covered in previous posts. They are providing mostly general procedures and options. Maybe I missed some observations. I tought that members did some practicing and come to some more specific conclusions and it will be benefitiary for all to share.

[DLT]

I think the consensus is:

If you are still on board, keep sailing and file an insurance claim.

If you are the one in the drink, hope the admiral has more compassion...

[LCB]

Hello,

Yes I have not only given serious thought and have read the results of tests done on the subject.

In a lake or busy area you may be picked up.. But in a situation where you are under sail, and the water is clear of land, and traffic to the horizon all around, you have big problems, cold water, no suit, you probably will not survive. For a weekend sailing crew to turn a boat under sail and spot a bobbing head in a wide expanse of water, even without whitecaps, is at best an extremely difficult task.

Lets suppose they found you, and you are not injured, you will probably be able to get back on board. But what if you are injured.. A wife and perhaps a teen age child on board. A sling from the boom, lifted by the topping lift?? lot of rigging,lot of time. One of them goes over to help you in the water, the other lifts by theyself??? Mucho problemos.

Harness and tied to the boat, whole different situation, but just about as bad. Pulled through the water at 3-6 knots, perhaps behind the boat, perhaps banging against the hull. Unlikely the average man can pull himself forward on a rope, (line), against even a 3 knot speed. Just imagine taking your cat by the tail, and dragging him the length of your full bathtub a few rounds. Will he look bad? So will you after a or mile behind, or beside your boat. Mucho problemos.

This is a large part of the reason I said in my previous post, (26M in blue water}, that weekend sailors should not tend sail in real nasty conditions. Thats why God gave us petroleum.

There is far more to it then this short letter, but the verdict is the same, Don't go overboard.

Russ

[bob lee]

our CYA course covered this alot, including extensive practise in the actual manuvers. if there is one reason to spend money on a proper course in your area, thats it. alsi a BIG tip is to put a MOB pole on your boat. its a 10ft high float pole with a flag that deploys when you throw it. as soon as the MOB goes over, you toss this in the direction they fell over, it gives you a much better target to aim at as you circle around. ours just sat in a small ring off the stern, easy to get to fast. but take the training, and make sure the crew that you sail with understands what will happen. its worth the prep time

[Chip Hindes]

Several page article in this month's Sail Mag on exactly this subject. Extensive coverage on how to sail back to the COB, and what to do to get them back aboard. It's very interesting how the things the experts thought they knew turned out not to work in real life.

Without covering it point by point, consensus is, only in very calm waters will a fit, uninjured COB be able to climb back aboard on his/ her own.

Their recommendation is a Lifesling, and hoisting them aboard with a halyard. Bigger boats have spare halyards. I'm working on the idea to upgrade my topping lift to do this. I'm mostly concerned about mast loading.

[ALX357]

my first impression on the mast loading..... 200 +/- lbs. would not be significantly more, and probably less, than the load on the windward stays when on a reach. Might be more concerned about the gooseneck, the sideways push into, but behind, the mast....... from the weight of a POB on the end of the boom.

[adm]

Thanks to Chip there is one solid recomendation to use lifesling and use some sort of hoist to bring POB in.
What will be best way to get to POB? - Sail?, motor if engine is working, motor and sail? How to approach POB - coursde direction relative to wind? how to maintain position in strong wind while retrieving POB?
The trainig courses and books are providing general answers to this questions. I am looking for Mac 26 specific recomendations taking into account how Mac 26 is designed and how it behaves.

[Eric O]

Of course things will be made easier if proper precautions have been taken before the person goes overboard such as crew wearing PFD's. Attached, waterproof safety lights help for spotting COB at night as does a handheld search light.

Once a person goes overboard the first step is to keep track of where they are. Throwing a second floatation device like a COB flag or even seat cushion or dye marker to help mark the spot visually. Many of the newer GPS's have a COB function button that can be used to mark the position. If there are enough crew members on board, one of them should do nothing more than try to maintain visual contact with the COB.

Second step is to get back to the COB position. Some people recommend sailing back if already under sail as the motor's prop could be dangerous to the COB. But sailing back accurately under some conditions and depending on experience may be difficult. So another approach would be to immediately head into the wind, drop all sails and motor back with due caution. The best choice will depend on conditions and experience.

Once near the COB deploy a LifeSling. Much effort was spent trying to solve the problem of how to lift the dead weight of person high enough to get them back onboard. The LifeSling was the result. Circle the COB until they have caught the LifeSling line. If motoring, keep a safe distance away until they have the line, then kill the motor, and pull them to the boat. If under sail, drop the sails and pull them to the boat. Once they are attached to the line kill all forms of power to avoid dragging the COB at any speed through the water. Worrying about position relative to the wind and so forth should be secondary to getting them attached by a line to the boat.

To acutally get them onboard once they have been pulled alongside the boat, connect the LifeSling to a block and tackle connected at some point at least 6 feet above the deck. The original LifeSling came with the block and tackle. The newer ones don't. Boom vang could possibly be pressed into service disconnecting it at both ends and attaching one end to the LS and the other end to either a halyard or possibly the mast raising bail on the mast. The best point for this will vary from boat to boat. The boom on a Mac is probably not a good attachment point, and the topping lift is probably not the best choice either unless it has been beefed up specifically with this duty in mind. If the boom vang isn't suitable, have a dedicated block and tackle made up and kept in a handy location onboard. Unhook any lifelines that will make it easier. Any available winches could be used to suppliment the block and tackle.

Beyond this the specifics will vary from boat to boat depending on available equipment.

[James V]

The best course is to prevent going overboard. In most ocean racing the person going overboard was NOT wearing a safety harness.
Do you have a safety harness and can keep it attached when going forward? Is the attachement points strong enough to keep you on the boat?
Does every crew menber have one? Is it worn?

Why do they call it a boom?

I was single handing a boat and the wind picked up blowing me off shore and had to pull down the sails. It was a little ruff and almost fell overboard. After that I bought a safety harnes and used it everytime I went forward. Attaching myself before handling the sails. Even a 1/2 mile swim to land in warm water is to much.

[Frank C]

... crew from water on Mac 26 in difficult conditions - taking into account its high sides, small inertia, drifting ...
... Did anyone give any serious thought how to do it? - best tactics when sailing or motoring in heavy weather, course and direction of approach, stoping and maintaining steady position, recovery of limp and weak person, other variables.
... How do you practice this manuever? Maybe real life experience to share.

Hmmm - well maybe. I recovered a "swimmer" from SF Bay one brisk afternoon, but she and her boyfriend were both able-bodied. We were under sail when we spied their capsized sailboat, maybe a third of a mile away, a day of scattered whitecaps. It took me that entire distance to furl sails, lower the outboard and safely control our progress to the capsize. I shifted into neutral, dropped the swim ladder and helped the young lady climb aboard the Mac's aft deck. I highly recommend this as a primary approach. We wrapped her in a couple of beach towels and then watched as the CG tried to help the boy right his sailboat.

Freeboard seems large relative to the Mac's length, certainly relative to its weight. But without doing the measurements, I'll guess that the Mac's distance from deck to water isn't any greater than an average 40-footer. I don't see that there's anything terribly unique about the Mac for the COB topic. If anything, it should be easier than with a keelboat because it's more maneuverable. I still recommend that the aft deck is the direction of choice.

... I did some searching on this site too. I got more question then answers and tried to revive this impotant topic. I am interested in specific details what is working and what is not in regard of Mac handling.

Candidly, I'll be surprised to read any specific details of "what is working." I don't recall reading that any of our membership has yet been unlucky enough to experience the problem. Maybe we're fortunate that our discussions remain inspecific and academic. I've never read here of anyone actually lifting an immobile COB aboard ???

Thanks to Chip there is one solid recomendation to use lifesling and use some sort of hoist to bring POB in.
What will be best way to get to POB? - Sail?, motor if engine is working, motor and sail? How to approach POB

A Lifesling is generally towed to surround the COB, so the Mac's outboard would be propulsion of choice. If you're sailing when the COB happens, furling the sails adds a degree of complexity. And as mentioned above, keeping eyes on the COB is job number one. The additional demand of furling sails must be built into the practice procedure. I can vouch for the fact that it's easier to write about than execute.

I DO recall that a couple of owners reported actually trying COB practice, with fenders not crew. But another academic ponderable is ... Could one hoist a COB on a halyard? I think maybe yes, but only if the ballast tank is full. Otherwise, there's a good chance the COB could pull the boat into a capsize . It's just another "feature" of the light-weight Macgregors. (I'm pretty sure that hoisting a fender on the halyard would not cause the capsize problem )

It remains an academic discussion (for me) because I just don't want to jump into 60-degree Bay for the practice, and I haven't been back to the warmer lake waters during the last 3 times the topic arose here. (I don't have a Lifesling, and beyond my one "real recovery," I have never practiced COB.

I'm unsure if it's the same article Chip referred to, but the December issue of Sailing Mag just arrived yesterday with a very lengthy and comprehensive article entitled, "What to do when someone falls OVERBOARD." They actually performed day-long COB drills from keelboats in SF Bay (crew in wetsuits). It describes lifting real, live crew from water to deck. With all due respect, that article will likely provide lots more real-world info relative to COB on a Mac than we can generate here ... a highly recommended article.

P.S. I am REALLY glad to read MaddMike's comment about using the outboard motor to hoist a COB. I've pondered that was the most practical method for a Mate to help me aboard, or for me to help myself back aboard ... but until now it was just one of my academic musings .... It just graduated from theory to prime Strategy!

I've never practiced it, but I have thought a lot about it. As Ron observed, it's a much different thing for me to recover a Mate, versus the opposite. I cannot imagine my Mate rigging a tackle to the winch and lifting me over the side of the cockpit.

If I was in the water, very cold and weak, and wanting to reboard the Mac I'd focus on the transom. With engine turned OFF, I'd straddle the cavitation plate like a bicycle seat and ask the Mate to raise the motor. That would get me out of the water anyway. In fact, there's a lift button right on the side of the outboard, so I could raise it myself. Once my motor is horizontal, I think I could "dismount" to the transom.

[maddmike]

Some points to consider when wearing a harness on a MAC26 (learned the hard way). #1 If you are wearing a harness & using a jackline to go forward make sure the line attaching you from harness to jackline is not to long. When you hit the water your weight & drag is very high in relation to your boat (not like falling off a CSY 44) and it will force the boat abeam the wind & swell & tend to try and force you under the boat, not good if your line is not long enough to come out the other side. If you are not the type of person who can do several 'pull-ups', a climbing ascender with a short foot sturip attached to your harness line can become a life saving addition. #2 Almost everytime I really needed to be in a harness, things were happening so quickly that to take the time to put on a harness could have resulted in losing the boat, mast, or something else. A web belt (called a swami belt by climbers), is a quick easy alternative to a harness (and yes I know you should always wear your harness alone at sea, but there is 'should' & there is the 'real world' which is why I always trail a 1/2 line behind me). #3-Before I went to small engines I had a 45 Honda (new top of the line at that time) & once used the powertilt to assist in bringing aboard an exhaused Haitian fisherman who's boat sunk out from under him. Just make sure the engine is not running and you have a good hold of your victums hands, one each side of the engine as you tilt the thing up. All for now, Maddmike

[Jack O'Brien]

With a narrow beam boat like the Mac it would be hard to be tethered to a jackline that would prevent you going over the side and still be loose or long enough to move about. You do NOT want to go over the side - especially if single handing! Being dragged through, or partially above, the water as the boat moves forward is extremely dangerous. If unable to unclip from your teather while being dragged, hopefully you remembered to carry a knife. Then wave goodby to your boat. Even with a half-inch line trailing the boat that you could grab you still get dragged like a drowned fish.

Using a spare halyard or topping lift clipped to your harness, belt or whatever, IN ADDITION to a tether and jackline, allows practical movement and keeps your butt aboard. If the line is led to the cockpit and you have crew they can control its length for you.

[Moe]

There are inflatable PFDs that have built-in harness from Mustang, Stearns, and SOSpenders. If you have the PFD on, you have the harness on.



On a boat with lines led aft, you could move the mainsheet from the grab bar back to the original attachment point, and attach a short tether to the attachment point on the top of the grab bar. That should keep you in the cockpit but let you move anywhere in it.