Keel 180 Lbs

[Moe]

Ours came from the factory with a single overhand knot, but I used a double-overhand knot on both ends of our new centerboard line. Also use it on the end of the mainsheet. The main downside to it is that it can be hard to untie after being compressed, so I don't use it on the jib sheets.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I think the figure eight is supposed to be the easiest to untie, but taking a look at my old CB line, there was no way I was gonna try untieing that so I cut it off. That way, it was also easy to replicate. I guess in hindsight, I could have back fed it through if I wanted to keep it as a spare, but it will probably get used as a dock line now anyway.

If yours came from the factory with a single overhand knot, there must have been a new "knotter" at the factory that day. I'd be worried that a single overhand might pull through as compressed as my knot was.

[delevi]

Dimitri,

I never had a grounding or collission of any sort. The first board was chewed up badly around the top part where it sits in the trunk when fully down and later, when I couldn't figure out why the boat was sliding sideways, I pulled it out and idscovered that the lower 1/3 of it was broken off. My current board is chewed up along the the top 1/3 with large chuncks missing. The dealer wouldn't cover the first board, not believeing that it woud just break without a grounding. The "logical" story he came up with is that I left it down while in a slip and it snapped during low tide. I actually did leave it down while in a slip overnight, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. The current one they don't have an explaination for. They took it to the Mac factory, and their remarks were that I was motoring with the board down above the recommended 6mph, which is not true. They are, however, saying they will replace this one, but I still don't have it back. I am ordering the new, heavy duty, 180lb board regardless and keep the stock one as a spare, if they do in fact replace it.
Good luck with your repairs

[delevi]

Moe or others,

What is your take on the force/counter-force of 150lbs 5ft down? Wouldn't the weight be actually working to create force opposite to the force generated by the board just doing its job from the water resistance/lift? Since lift induces heel by pushing on the DB trunk to leeward and the weight at the bottom of the board pushes back the other way to windward thus reducing the heel, wouldn't there actually be less stress on the trunk than with the stock board? My assumption, but I know little of these things. Thoughts?

[Moe]

Yes, the top of the board pushes on the leeward side of the trunk and the lower part of the board at the bottom of the trunk pushes on the windward side, tending to roll the boat to leeward and contribute to heel. But to an increasingly limited degree, since the boat is tender and when it heels, helped largely by the sails, the effective area of the board is reduced, as is that of the sails. But then there's the factor of increased leeway on the other hand (addressed below). In fact, at some point of heel and reduction of force on it, even the weight of the factory board may reverse these forces to bear on the opposite sides of the trunk, albeit by not very much.

By the same token, the drag of the board causes the top of it to push on the forward side of the trunk and the lower part of the board at the bottom of the trunk pushes on the aft side.

You're correct that in a static situation, the downward vector of gravity acting on the ballast should oppose the forces of leeway, lift, and drag on the board, and at least reduce these forces. That should reduce the board's contribution to heel, in the case of the lateral forces, all other things being equal.

But all other things aren't equal, at least you hope not. If the end result is less heel, there's more effective board area presented to the sea. OTOH, if the velocity of leeway decreases, that could have a more influential effect on the force on the board since it is related to the velocity squared, where the relationship to area is linear. If the end result is more forward boat velocity, that will also increase the drag force exponentially. These things could offset, to at least some degree, the reduction in force that the effect of gravity on the ballast would have. And with additional weight, the angle of heel at which the forces reverse (and the weight of the board begins opposing the sails' effort to roll the boat) should be somewhat lower.

It's the dynamic environment of the boat rolling, pitching, and yawing in heavy seas that worries me more with that weight on the end of that lever arm.

I've probably missed something here Chip or Darren will pick up on.

[delevi]

Thanks Moe. I had to read that a few times, but I think I got the gist of it. I suppose at the end of the day, there is only one way to find out. I know Im taking some risks, but this is something I need to give a chance. If it works, I think my experience with the Mac will be much more enjoyable, particularly in the conditions here in SF. If it doesnt.

[Tahoe Jack]

While moored to a ball at Tahoe, and accidently left board down for a few days, severe wind chop wrapped the mooring ball chain around the board and chewed hull out of it...much like you describe. Scored a new one from the factory on my dime. Jack

[Frank C]

Jack,
Since you're the guy who had two masts fail - on that mooring - I'm curious about your opinion.

Partly due to your experience, I decided that I would NOT choose the lightly-designed 26X if a permanent mooring was my only practical option. I feel that a mooring is simply too demanding for the way this boat and rig are designed - just my opinion. In fact, I believe few recognize the fact that a moored boat is a boat that must be "working," 24/7, the year-round.

So, granting that you're stuck "in the boat you're in" ....
how do YOU feel about permanently mooring your Mac???

[Tahoe Jack]

Hey Frank C....re 'masts'...must have been someone else. Don't know anyone else that had any problems either. We had no problems aside from the chain-chewed board...and that was my error in leaving it down. We only moored at Richardson at Tahoe for a few months year before last....doing the trailer thing since. We save time trailering to nearer Cave Rock launch vs. the South Shore summer traffic to Richardson.
Jack

[Frank C]

Sorry Jack - my mistake!

It was Paul DeMaster who had the mast problem, in this thread. Read Paul's quote carefully, you'll see that "yet another" Macgregor, an M this time, lost her mast.

The constant motion on a mooring demands a well-tuned rig. Even then, the boat on a mooring is "working" more than one might imagine. I'd bet these moored boats endure continuous hull and rig stresses that rival those for a boat that's crossing an ocean. Shown at bottom is my 'updated' listing of Macgregor's that have suffered known mast failures.

Hi:
I am the guy who lost two masts. Hence the name D'Master. A pretty blue M also lost a mast while at mooring in our bouy field at Zephyr Cove, Lake Tahoe. I would replace the bent mast as that is where both of mine broke leaving the bottom half standing. With genny and main in the water you will not be able to lift it back aboard unless you have bolt cutters. When she goes you better be in a place where you can motor to a beach.

NOW enumerating six (nay, seven) Macgregor masts,
each bent or broken near the spreaders ...

(*) Bent or Broken Masts

• 1. Rich's 26M mast toppled & bent at spreaders
  2. John Mason, 26X Gulf Coast, toppled & bent at spreaders (halyard cleat failed)
  3. Female owner snagged a shroud, mast snapped at spreaders
  4. Morris, 26X on Solent mooring, mast snapped at spreaders
  5. Paul, 26X on Tahoe mooring, mast snapped at spreaders
  6. Paul, 26X on Tahoe mooring, (AGAIN) mast snapped at spreaders
  7. 26M ALSO on Lake Tahoe mooring (noted by Paul)

[baldbaby2000]

I know that loose rigging can cause failures. There was a boat (not a Mac) at a slip on Lake Granby that had a mast break during a storm. The scuttlebutt was that his rigging was too loose. We get some pretty outragous storms there in the mountains. Our Mac (slippped) and several X's (moored) haven't had any failures that I know of the 2 years I've been there. I'm also pretty sure that a roller furling system adds a lot of strain to the mast due to windage. I've watched my furled headsail at the slip during high winds and got a little nervous watching it oscillate back and forth. I use a sock for UV protection which may make it even worse.

BB

[delevi]

Well, my DB is on its way to IdaSailor Marine to be used for a mould to have a 180 lb keel made. After having several discussions with Arena Yachts, I feel pretty confident that the boat should be able to handle the added loads without problems, and the performance boost they told me to expect should be significant. The only real question mark is whether the plate and roller through which the raising/lowering line runs and the cheeck block can take the heavy load. If not, I suppose I can get beefier versions. I'm anxiously waiting and keeping my fingers crossed that this thing works out.

[They Theirs]

delevi

For the cost of exploring for a better keel, I would certainly enhance the safety line/cable. Could not hurt to upgrade the sheaves, purchase, and size of the line to better fit your hands for lifting the weighted board.

Exciting waiting the results, I envy your bravery.

[delevi]

Will use new lines w/ 3000lb breaking load & Spinlock SPX rope clutch mounted in front of the winch to replace the cleat. If the winch is 8:1, it should be fine raising & lowering, but I will only perform this when the boat is not moving i.e. keel not under load.

[Newell]

As this is a weighted DB proposal perhaps a weighted CB on a 26X is out of the range of discussion. I modified my CB by filling the bottom @1/3 with melted lead (tire wheel weights) several years ago. Previously I built up the top of the board to match the trunk cavity to within 1/8" with layers of mat fiberglass covered with gelcoat. I also replaced the original pivot hole with a brass bearing (don't give me crap about 2 dissimiliar metals corroding). The board has very little slop, no bang, bang at anchor. Moved the lifting point @ 1" for better purchase and reduce chafing of the lifting line which was converted from cable to strongest line I could buy. The CB is lifted by 3:1 pulley system.

What did I gain for all my work? I can sleep on the boat with the board down. It gave me confidence, for a time, to race other keel boats (have mostly lost). Have more confidence in sailing unballasted in higher winds. I have won several trailer sailor races so the boat may be faster or I have become a better sailor thinking the boat was faster.

The only hitch I can see in the M DB mod is raising the board quickly in a pinch such as moving the boat onto the trailer or approaching the beach. It may make the M consistantly faster than a X which the stock boat isn't at present.