Engine Size (fuel economy)
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macsailor
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:52 am
- Location: MACX0309L596.... Brandon Manitoba
Engine Size (fuel economy)
gentlemen.I dont want to start a big kerfuffle with this, but when I bought my X in 96, I opted for a 9.9 hp motor. I dont have kids at home anymore so skiing is long since passed, and I do sail mostly on an inland lake. Usually I burn 20L (app.6 US gal) of gas a year.So I was just wandering why a lot have opted to get a 50 or greater hp motor.Just wandering.....quietly waiting for spring in Canada..........Jim.....
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Bobby T.-26X #4767
- Captain
- Posts: 906
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:48 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA
no need to start a new thread on this.
one going on right now.
Mac Engine Size
or search the archives.
this topic has been discussed at great length.
Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI
one going on right now.
Mac Engine Size
or search the archives.
this topic has been discussed at great length.
Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI
Reasons for larger engine
macsailor,
Here are my reasons for wanting a large outboard:
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1.) to make my Mac26 a powerboat, we bought it when looking at power boats, because mamma liked the enclosed head and shady cabin.
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2.) to get my small kids interested in coming aboard, going fast is fun.
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3.) on hot days, to go fast into the wind to dry off and cool off wet kids
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4.) to enable exploration to farther destinations, the first reason to get a boat to me is to go explore places accessible by water.
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5.) to go fishing and get to where the fish are quickly enough to still have time to catch fish.
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6.) to learn to sail with the comfort of the large motor's ability to quickly get out of trouble after having sailed into a tight spot including too near to a shoal or other nautical obsticle or when sudden weather changes force a hasty retreat. Being able to run from weather makes it more sane to go out on days that are nice, but the chance that a storm will pop up is high, and because of the change of a storm, there is wind to power the sails.
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7.) A comfortable steady quiet dinner cruise, when going about 10 to 12 knots on smooth water on a hot day it is quite nice to enjoy the breeze while having dinner till sunset, then powering back in the dark to go home for the night. Many times we went out and left the mast home just for a couple hours of dinner cruise. The lake is 5 minutes away, launching and getting out a few miles to a nice part of the lake is just another 15 or 20 minutes where we have dinner. A Suzuki DF50 motor is very very quiet when going just 10 knots at less than half throttle, a 9.9 going 10 knots would be wide open and very loud. Quiet is very important for relaxation and relaxation is an important way to use a Mac26X. The time to set sail would prohibit dinner cruises, plus we are novice sailors and therefore sailing mode is less relaxing than motoring out for dinner on the lake.
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By the way, with the 50hp, we would only burn roughly 20 or 30 gallons a year including several trips where we would go full throttle on the open ocean for hours to a destination that would take more than a day of sailing. Also including using the boat in the driveway as a gas station for the lawn mower, leaf blower etc...
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I understand that for some sailors, sailing is the destination. I'm like that sometimes, but the larger motor puts so many more destinations into credible range for non-live-aboard people like me, that the Mac26 would not be worthwhile without a large outboard. The larger than 50hp outboards simply pull more destinations into range while making the trip more enjoyably quiet. Those hours of noisy full throttle on the little 50hp could be replaced by hours of quiet relaxation running a Suzuki DF140 at part throttle.
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If I had it to do over, I would go for the 416 lb. Suzuki 140hp or possibly the 369 lb. V-4 Etec 115hp outboards to get a quiet part throttle 20mph cruise for exploring to far away places. The Suzuki 140 has great power to weight ratio and is the quietest possible engine I can think of for the Mac26. The Etec 115hp V-4 has the same 1800W alternator that is on the V6's, so if it has (or can be easily modified to have) major extra electrical output that would be a consideration. The Etec 150/175/200 is 419lb and would be an outside possibility and the web page says it will produce 50 amps for charging. The 115hp V4 says 25 Amp, but also says it has the same 1800W alternator...
Here are my reasons for wanting a large outboard:
..
1.) to make my Mac26 a powerboat, we bought it when looking at power boats, because mamma liked the enclosed head and shady cabin.
..
2.) to get my small kids interested in coming aboard, going fast is fun.
..
3.) on hot days, to go fast into the wind to dry off and cool off wet kids
..
4.) to enable exploration to farther destinations, the first reason to get a boat to me is to go explore places accessible by water.
..
5.) to go fishing and get to where the fish are quickly enough to still have time to catch fish.
..
6.) to learn to sail with the comfort of the large motor's ability to quickly get out of trouble after having sailed into a tight spot including too near to a shoal or other nautical obsticle or when sudden weather changes force a hasty retreat. Being able to run from weather makes it more sane to go out on days that are nice, but the chance that a storm will pop up is high, and because of the change of a storm, there is wind to power the sails.
..
7.) A comfortable steady quiet dinner cruise, when going about 10 to 12 knots on smooth water on a hot day it is quite nice to enjoy the breeze while having dinner till sunset, then powering back in the dark to go home for the night. Many times we went out and left the mast home just for a couple hours of dinner cruise. The lake is 5 minutes away, launching and getting out a few miles to a nice part of the lake is just another 15 or 20 minutes where we have dinner. A Suzuki DF50 motor is very very quiet when going just 10 knots at less than half throttle, a 9.9 going 10 knots would be wide open and very loud. Quiet is very important for relaxation and relaxation is an important way to use a Mac26X. The time to set sail would prohibit dinner cruises, plus we are novice sailors and therefore sailing mode is less relaxing than motoring out for dinner on the lake.
..
By the way, with the 50hp, we would only burn roughly 20 or 30 gallons a year including several trips where we would go full throttle on the open ocean for hours to a destination that would take more than a day of sailing. Also including using the boat in the driveway as a gas station for the lawn mower, leaf blower etc...
..
I understand that for some sailors, sailing is the destination. I'm like that sometimes, but the larger motor puts so many more destinations into credible range for non-live-aboard people like me, that the Mac26 would not be worthwhile without a large outboard. The larger than 50hp outboards simply pull more destinations into range while making the trip more enjoyably quiet. Those hours of noisy full throttle on the little 50hp could be replaced by hours of quiet relaxation running a Suzuki DF140 at part throttle.
..
If I had it to do over, I would go for the 416 lb. Suzuki 140hp or possibly the 369 lb. V-4 Etec 115hp outboards to get a quiet part throttle 20mph cruise for exploring to far away places. The Suzuki 140 has great power to weight ratio and is the quietest possible engine I can think of for the Mac26. The Etec 115hp V-4 has the same 1800W alternator that is on the V6's, so if it has (or can be easily modified to have) major extra electrical output that would be a consideration. The Etec 150/175/200 is 419lb and would be an outside possibility and the web page says it will produce 50 amps for charging. The 115hp V4 says 25 Amp, but also says it has the same 1800W alternator...
I'm a complete newbie when it comes to Macs. I've been lurking and looking but I won't be ready to pull the trigger on one until I get a couple homes built and sold. My timeline is Winter 2006/2007 for buying a 26X or 26M. I'm not religious about sailing nor motoring. I just want something to explore Puget Sound with and something I can pull the kids around with via kneeboard or the tube at Lake Crescent.
For me the most important motoring characteristics would be low noise and easy cruising. I don't want to fly around at top speed because the Puget Sound has a lumber yard floating around in it anyway. Nothing like hitting a tree doing top speed to ruin your day.
From my reading I'm going to look for something with the larger lower-end with a 14" prop. The big Suzuki seems to have a great torque curve, big prop and offer very quite cruising. I'd probably be happy with any of the 4-strokes or modern 2-strokes though.
My main concern isn't speed, 12-13knots if fine for me but doing them quitely and having good range at sea level is important. The lightest, cheapest motor that can do this would be my choice. The Evinrude ETEC 60 looks like it would be perfect assuming noise is manageable at cruise. It is light at 240lbs, has the big 14" prop, modern engine management, injection etc.., has 75A charging, can be pull started in a pinch and should be quite enough at cruise to meet my needs. It would be about 100lbs lighter than the Suzuki 70 which I would guess is much quiter at cruise. Since I'm buying used I'll probably pick a Mac based upon condition of the main craft first and live withever motor is on it. I'll remotor if I find that it doesn't fit my needs. For someone who sails only the 9.9 Hp is more than enough but for most people buying a 26X or 26M they are interested in both.
For me the most important motoring characteristics would be low noise and easy cruising. I don't want to fly around at top speed because the Puget Sound has a lumber yard floating around in it anyway. Nothing like hitting a tree doing top speed to ruin your day.
From my reading I'm going to look for something with the larger lower-end with a 14" prop. The big Suzuki seems to have a great torque curve, big prop and offer very quite cruising. I'd probably be happy with any of the 4-strokes or modern 2-strokes though.
My main concern isn't speed, 12-13knots if fine for me but doing them quitely and having good range at sea level is important. The lightest, cheapest motor that can do this would be my choice. The Evinrude ETEC 60 looks like it would be perfect assuming noise is manageable at cruise. It is light at 240lbs, has the big 14" prop, modern engine management, injection etc.., has 75A charging, can be pull started in a pinch and should be quite enough at cruise to meet my needs. It would be about 100lbs lighter than the Suzuki 70 which I would guess is much quiter at cruise. Since I'm buying used I'll probably pick a Mac based upon condition of the main craft first and live withever motor is on it. I'll remotor if I find that it doesn't fit my needs. For someone who sails only the 9.9 Hp is more than enough but for most people buying a 26X or 26M they are interested in both.
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Frank C
I think Robert's & kevperro's posts thoroughly hit the main criteria for choosing a Mac's power component. Kev has obviously done lots of reading here. There's also one sub-criterion to consider about engine weight. If you have a large family, or you are the neighborhood's social leader, engine weight can be VERY important. A large-propped 2-stroke might be a good choice if you can save 100 transom-pounds.
Conversely, for 98% of my boating time I have only 2 or 3 persons aboard, myself included. In my case the transom weight was a secondary consideration, while my primary target was a very economical and quiet midrange cruise. It seems from reading here that the late models of 26X have the aft buoyancy for 350 transom-pounds, but as Bob suggested, search and read thoroughly - including about transom reinforcements - caveat emptor.
Conversely, for 98% of my boating time I have only 2 or 3 persons aboard, myself included. In my case the transom weight was a secondary consideration, while my primary target was a very economical and quiet midrange cruise. It seems from reading here that the late models of 26X have the aft buoyancy for 350 transom-pounds, but as Bob suggested, search and read thoroughly - including about transom reinforcements - caveat emptor.
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Bobby T.-26X #4767
- Captain
- Posts: 906
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:48 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA
now this is an excellent value and something worth considering...kevperro wrote:I'm a complete newbie when it comes to Macs. I've been lurking and looking . . .
'02X w/ 10hp Honda - asking $14.5K
you can sell the Honda for ($800-1K?) and purchase an new outboard of your liking.
remember, however, that most on this board with a 50hp now wish that they had more horsepower.
Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI
Bob, before you get your head bitten off, I think there are many who are quite satisfied with their 50hp motors.Bobby T.-26X #4767 wrote:most on this board with a 50hp now wish that they had more horsepower
On the other hand, I definately want a 90hp... It looks like that may or may not be doable this year, but it is on my list...
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
1309+ nautical miles in Puget Sound so far and no logs yet.
It's very rare for us to go WOT with our 50 hp. This is mainly only done when playing with water toys out in Lake Washington. For us we have two main speeds, 7-9 knots is the slow cruise that allows talking in the cockpit (Our carb'd 2 stroke Tohatsu 50 is a loud motor), and 11-13 knots which is the fast cruise. No problems avoiding logs at that speed.
For the last 5 years I have kept detailed distance and time logs from the GPS for our trips. I find it interesting that the 1309 Nm covered divided by the 186 hrs, 51 minutes of underway time gives an average speed of just over 7 knots. Of course this is motoring and sailing, but we are 90%+ motoring on most trips. I'm hoping for more sailing as the boys get older and take a more active role in operating the boat.
It's very rare for us to go WOT with our 50 hp. This is mainly only done when playing with water toys out in Lake Washington. For us we have two main speeds, 7-9 knots is the slow cruise that allows talking in the cockpit (Our carb'd 2 stroke Tohatsu 50 is a loud motor), and 11-13 knots which is the fast cruise. No problems avoiding logs at that speed.
For the last 5 years I have kept detailed distance and time logs from the GPS for our trips. I find it interesting that the 1309 Nm covered divided by the 186 hrs, 51 minutes of underway time gives an average speed of just over 7 knots. Of course this is motoring and sailing, but we are 90%+ motoring on most trips. I'm hoping for more sailing as the boys get older and take a more active role in operating the boat.
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Bobby T.-26X #4767
- Captain
- Posts: 906
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:48 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA
Look, i have no interest in what anyone has on their rear end. i'm just sharing my deep & personal thoughts about what works best for me (and those i've had this discussion with). That said:PeteC wrote:Make sure you understand the insurance and liability implications of putting a larger than manufacturer recommended motor on the Mac.
1) the warranty is for a new purchase for 2 years for the original owner only (I'm outtta warranty, and so are you Peter).
2) even though Macgregor does not warrant for any motor over 50hp (Orig owner only for 1st 2 yrs), dealers are installing 335# 70 Suzuki's on the rear ends of M's and claiming to have some sorta/kinda "who knows what" approval/warranty...
3) Peter, even if you did have a 70 or 90 on your rear end, are you the kind of a guy who would be doing "hole-shots" and "air-jumps" at 25mph over 6' swells risking transom damage or capsizing?
trust me when i say that if i ever capsize my X it will have absolutely nothing to do with the 90hp on my rear end.
i've done plenty of hours with my 90hp so far and will continue to do so without transom damage or jeopardizing safety.
Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI
Last edited by Bobby T.-26X #4767 on Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
More than I care to admitt. I'll probably limit my boat search to those with 4 strokes. I might make a trip over to Blue Water Yachts for a ride on one with the 2-stroke Nissans just to get an idea of how much noise a modern 2-stroker makes. I'd be happy with anything that doesn't require shouting at cruise. I'll almost never be running it at WOT so that really isn't my main concern.Frank C wrote:. Kev has obviously done lots of reading here.
If I can... I'll buy a unit at Blue Water simply so I have some local dealer support. They seem like nice people to support also.
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Bobby T.-26X #4767
- Captain
- Posts: 906
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:48 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA
you will be surprised about decibel levels with a 50 4 stroke at cruising speeds (15mph).kevperro wrote: More than I care to admitt. I'll probably limit my boat search to those with 4 strokes. I might make a trip over to Blue Water Yachts for a ride on one with the 2-stroke Nissans just to get an idea of how much noise a modern 2-stroker makes. I'd be happy with anything that doesn't require shouting at cruise. I'll almost never be running it at WOT so that really isn't my main concern.
If I can... I'll buy a unit at Blue Water simply so I have some local dealer support. They seem like nice people to support also.
the reason being that to get to that speed you will be at near full throttle. thus, it's not the same "purring" sound that you get in the harbor.
when you move up to a 70 or 90, the advantage is that you can go at 2/3 to 3/4 throttle, get above 15mph, maintain excellent mpg, and the engine decibels are basically the same or less than a "high revving" 50hp.
or, just go with a 9.9hp and sail to your heart's content.
Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI
I guess a ride for some first hand experience is the best way to find out. I've got a pretty good size crew (four kids and a big dog) so I'd rather error on the high side. If I did I'd probably look for one of the 26Ms with a 70 installed by Blue Water. That way all the headache and belly aching is done for me.you will be surprised about decibel levels with a 50 4 stroke at cruising speeds (15mph).
Bob T.
"DaBob"
'02X w/ '04 90 TLDI
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LOUIS B HOLUB
- Admiral
- Posts: 1315
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:40 am
- Location: 1999 Mac-X, Nissan 50 HP, Kemah, TX, "Holub Boat"
My former boat, a Mac 26S with an 8 HP Merc. was fun, and we liked it. My current boat, a Mac 26X with its 50 HP is plenty of H.P. in my opinion and it was a "BIG" motor speed difference than the former boat. The speed is remarkable. I wouldnt feel safe on a boat designed for a 50 HP, with anything more than a 70 HP.
Our first boat was a Catalina 22 with a very small motor. Since we were working truckdrivers at the time we needed a bigger boat to live on for weekends or long layovers. We decided on the Mac 26X. We bought a used on and swapped out the 15 hp motor it had for a 50 hp Suzuki. We wanted to beable to head up the lake as far as we wanted to and still get back in a reasonable amount of time if called to pick up a load. We usually cruise at 6 mph but Jim does have fun opening it up everynow and then.
We also spent alot of time on the lake in bad weather when none of the other sailboats were out. The 50 hp had power enough to get us where we wanted to go. Didnt have to give up the weekend on the boat because it was nasty out.
I can see where they would be great for families with kids. Something for everyone.
We also spent alot of time on the lake in bad weather when none of the other sailboats were out. The 50 hp had power enough to get us where we wanted to go. Didnt have to give up the weekend on the boat because it was nasty out.
I can see where they would be great for families with kids. Something for everyone.