Will it tow a Mac

[Gemini]

It would be much safer for the trailer and tow vehicle because of much less weight. It would be safer for the Mac26's hull too higher in the water with less momentum in case it rubs the trailer the wrong way.

I can't argue with any of these points. In fact I agree with them.

With that said, however, I've often put her on the trailer with full ballast and pulled the plugs, as the last thing before pulling her out, thereby draining the tank on the way up the ramp...

That is exactly how I have been doing it. The boat is still floating when I hook it to the trailer, then as I pull it up the ramp the plugs are openned and it drains like a fire-hose.

[Chip Hindes]

It would be much safer for the trailer and tow vehicle because of much less weight.

Slightly safer, not much safer. But pulling the trailer just out of the water with full ballast at 2mph doesn't put nearly the loads on the trailer or the vehicle as occur at normal road speeds without ballast.

It would be safer for the Mac26's hull too higher in the water with less momentum in case it rubs the trailer the wrong way.

Couldn't disagree more. For those who dock in dead calm with no wind, waves, powerboat wakes or current, maybe. For those of us who frequently must contend with all of the above, the Mac without ballast bobs around like a cork; give me full ballast every time.

I must be doing something wrong, but I always pull her out empty... never with ballast. Not sure I understand why you would want to keep the ballast in?

I always pull out with the ballast full. I'm a sailor, I almost always operate with ballast.

So, answering that question with a contrarian question: Why would I want to fire up the motor early and then run around at high speed like a doofus powerboater just to empty the ballast?

Particularly given the typical wind, wave and current conditions at the ramp, and even more particularly when I still have to travel the last 1/2 mile at no wake speed to get to the ramp.

[blanton]

Coincidentally, I sold my Mini not long ago and recently bought for Leslie for her 50th birthday a voodoo blue FJ. AK license plate "FJ".

The FJ may prospectively be one of our tow rigs. We'll see how well it works for that. Our 26M isn't here yet but may arrive from Blue Water in Seattle aboard one of the Tote (Totem) RoRo ships next Sunday.

Primary tow rig will likely be "the pig", my Quigley 1.5 ton 4x4 E-350 diesel Alaska safari rig van with Reunel winch bars with hitches front and rear.

http://homepage.mac.com/blanton/PhotoAlbum26.html

[zuma hans 1]

My Ford Explorer (4x4, smaller engine) will lock into second gear (bypassing first) if I select 2 at a complete stop?

I guess never driving in snow, I never had to know this.

Are you sure? I can't find anything in the Encyclopedia that came in the glovebox.

What advantage would that be on a slippery ramp? All I can see is a quicker stall.

I have automatic 4x4 and have had it engage the front wheels on a ramp while pulling the Mac up. Big kerclunk at a crucial time. From then on I manually engaged it before backing in.

[zuma hans 1]

For those who dock in dead calm with no wind, waves, powerboat wakes or current, maybe. For those of us who frequently must contend with all of the above, the Mac without ballast bobs around like a cork; give me full ballast every time.

Is it an either/or question? Why not keep the ballast valve closed until the prow is on the trailer, then drain the ballast before driving up the incline?

[Chip Hindes]

Maybe not, but that was the question. Several are saying it's easier and/or better to dock and load onto the trailer with the ballast out. I disagree. Once the bow is in the V and winched against the stopper, I pull the handle, but it really doesn't drain until the boat is out of the water. I pull forward far enough to get the ballast valve out of the water; if somebody's waiting I pull forward far enough to unblock the ramp, then stop and let it drain down the ramp.

The only situation I can think of wherein no ballast would be better, would be on a shallow ramp where the extra few inches of draft with ballast in will prevent you from getting the boat on the trailer far enough to be able the attach the winch hook to the bow eye. Never happened to me yet, and now that I have a long strap replacing the original short winch rope, I don't see this ever being a problem.

Like you, I don't like the way the AWD doesn't engage until the rear wheels begin to slip, then engages with a klunk, so I manually engage before backing down the ramp, as soon as everything is lined up.

[Frank C]

... Several are saying it's easier and/or better to dock and load onto the trailer with the ballast out. I disagree. Once the bow is in the V and winched against the stopper, I pull the handle, but it really doesn't drain until the boat is out of the water.

Disagree? I wouldn't say it's necessarily true for your situation, but it's certainly true for many situations. Since my ramp is 3 miles along a narrow shipping channel, I usually motor home at 12+ knots, so emptying ballast requires nothing special - it's built-in as part of the ritual.

I load at a long finger dock between two ramps, and the wind is consistently on-beam as the boats lie to that dock. This means that my favored, upwind ramp is particularly easy for loading. I approach slowly at 45*, stop at dock's end using "reverse-in" then tie-up and the wind holds the boat onto the dock while I get the rig. I always back the trailer down the ramp close to the finger dock and walk the boat onto the trailer.

In my situation, and probably many others too, there's no need or reason to load with ballast full. Further, if one accidently bumps the boat into a trailer bunk, goalpost or winch post with ballast full, there's every reason to believe that's more punishing on the trailer and the hull than with ballast empty ...
wouldn't you agree?

[Night Sailor]

I've only had to load the boat once with ballast, but it wasn't nice. At the top of the ramp and out of the way, the rush of water was funneled down the ramp onto the shoes of other boaters. All other tmies I've emptied ballast just to lightne the boat for it's float up on the bunks. It's easier to hand guide in a cross wind or current when it's lighter, and I suspect alsok that if something goes amiss, it's easier on the boat and trailer when metal and fiberglass crunch. I've spent $400 dollars on guides, rollers, etc. so it won't float off and jam the way it did the first time, but I still think, the lighter the better in shallow water.

[Chip Hindes]

Wouldn't I agree with what?

That it's worthwhile to run around at high speed just to empty ballast? Nope.

That it's easier to motor in a shipping channel without ballast than with? Not in any shipping channel I've ever motored in. Never been in one wherein it was more comfortable, or easier on the boat, or anything other than somewhat dangerous , to motor with empty ballast. I'll take your word that's it's so for you, but for me, nope.

Easier to dock and load the boat? Nope. Ditto, except as I said when the seas are calm and winds favorable. When the boat is bobbing around like a cork, I want full ballast. When the winds are off the dock instread of on like you describe, head or particularly tailwinds, I want full ballast.

When the boat accidentally hits a goalpost or whatever? That's a false choice. Particularly at low docking/ loading speeds, you're more stable with ballast, and you're therefore less likely to prang something. It's kind of like crashworthiness. Nice to have, better to avoid needing it.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."

Then don't do that.

I reiterate, I can't think of one situation where it's better to dock or load without ballast. The worst can be said about docking with ballast is that in a few isolated cases, it's not better than docking without ballast. In most cases however, it's far better with than without.

[Frank C]

.... Several are saying it's easier and/or better to dock and load onto the trailer with the ballast out.
I disagree.

... The worst can be said about docking with ballast is that
in a few isolated cases, it's not better than docking without ballast.

Hmmm - absolutism gives way to occasional reality ... that's real progress!

In most cases however, it's far better with than without.

Guess that'll be the NEXT debate! One such case .... I won't need to OVERLOAD my lowly,
single-axle trailer with two-and-a-half TONS of boat & seawater ...

But, guess that's a non-issue for anyone with a 3-ton+ trailer! ??? (yet another "isolated case?")

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Roger says full ballast for a crew larger than four

Actually, I was looking at my placards yesterday and it is not worded quite so strongly, says something more along the lines that it is a good idea to have full ballast with 4 adults on board and don't go up on deck, etc.

Frankly, unless the seas are rough or I am sailing, I don't fill my ballast routinely like this. I always end up with some of the kids down below so the boat has plenty of low weight to be stable. I think if you put 10 adults on one side of the deck, you can probably still capsize the boat even with full ballast, its just that it will pop back up easier when everyone gets thrown in the water.

Regarding trailering. Unless you use an extension or like to drown your tow vehicle, the front bunks are just barely in the water. I have no dock at my main ramp so I always drive the boat onto the trailer. With full ballast, it sits an inch or two lower which is just right to bust the bunks off...which I did the one time I came in with ballast some months ago (since then, I did install a helper roller too though). So I'm with Frank, I have to do my last 3 miles in a protected channel and so it is very easy to dump the ballast on the way in.

[Chip Hindes]

I won't need to OVERLOAD my lowly, single-axle trailer with two-and-a-half TONS of boat & seawater

I've said this before but it bears repeating. Overloading the trailer is not the Mac equivalent of falling off a cliff. It's a statics versus dynamics problem, and that's not the way the physics works.

Overloading the trailer for a few minutes by pulling 15 or 100 feet up the ramp with the ballast still in is not nearly as "bad" for the trailer as traveling down one of our northeastern roads at 45mph with the correct load.

Don't forget, this boat is at least capable of being operated strictly as a sailboat, and it's quite capable of operating with no motor at all, or a small motor not capable of dumping the ballast when underway. For these, the only way to dump ballast is on the trailer. So the difference between yours and theirs is the weight of the motor and fuel.

Looked at another way, if pulling out with ballast breaks your trailer, that's a very effective and potentially lifesaving safety feature; you didn't want to be on the road with it anyway.

[craiglaforce]

Just a reminder that there are other ways to emtpy the ballast if the main issue is not red-lining the motor for 10 minutes. Raft inflator /
Air blower in a ballast vent, or a blige pump wired up and mounted in a PVC TEE fitting. center leg of TEE fits on the ballast valve, bottom leg is capped and acts as a small sump for the bilge pump. Top lef of TEE is left open and passes the wired up to the cockpit cig lighter.

[NiceAft]

I've been following this thread with much interest. I too use a full ballast when motoring the boat onto the trailer. When I do, I make certain that the valve is wide open, and the plug is removed from the ballast tank. When I start pulling the trailer up the ramp I go very slowly, and I only go a few feet. Water in the ballast will flow to the level of the water around it. As the boat is pulled out, the water flows out. If you only go as far as exposing the valve, you are not placing exceptional stress on the trailer. Once the valve is out of the water, you just let it drain. How far have you traveled, 36 feet? You've done this at a crawl. Part of that time the boat was partially floating. I'm sure there are some who have placed much greater stress on the trailer by too quick a start at a traffic signal when the light has turned green, or hit a bump in the road at 70MPH with the Mac in tow.

Ray

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I tried to empty my ballast once with a raft inflator through the vent hole. My boat was level on a lift. Only a little water came out and the ballast remained mostly full. I had to put the boat on the trailer on a ramp to empty the ballast...it was dissapointing after the reports I've read here. Makes me wonder if people have actually had success with this technique or it is just an urban legend. Not sure there was anything I could have done differently to get the water out short of gravity.