Heavy Weather Sail aka Stormsail

[Terry]

Well I went home the other night and took a close look at that foretang and anchor roller (as discussed under 18mph under sail thread) and there is not a whole lot of room there. Definitely would have to bolt another SS piece on to drill 3 holes. This brings me to another idea, a second small heavy weather sail. Not that I plan to be out in storm force conditions or anything but there are times when one reefs the main to the second reef point and are still running with full hanked on jibsail. I generally take a look out there before deciding between a jib or genny but I have seen occasions where I wish I had a smaller jib. The current 100% jib is 130 sq.ft., so I am thinking perhaps half of that, maybe 65 sq.ft. combined with the deepest main reef. My plan is to get my present jib recut when I replace the main & jib next year. My concern is to what size should it be cut and should I be looking at a second shorter stay to hoist it on. Also should the foot be higher so as not to catch any water over the bow (heaven forbid) and should the tack be further aft of the current jib tack considering that the shorter stay would attach to a lower hound? This is not an etched in stone plan, just a preliminary idea to toss out for feedback. Any Thoughts?

[delevi]

Terry,

If your current jib is stock, don't re-cut it to be a storm sail. The stock sails are 4 oz dacron, not nearly enough for a storm sail. You should be looking more like 7-9 oz. I think a few hundred dollars would buy you a storm jib, which may be just a few bucks more than a re-cut of a sail, way too light for this purpose. Check http://www.thesailwarehouse.com Last I checked, they had storm jibs for both M & X boats.

Leon

[Frank C]

... The current 100% jib is 130 sq.ft., so I am thinking perhaps half of that, maybe 65 sq.ft. combined with the deepest main reef.

... and should I be looking at a second shorter stay to hoist it on. Also should the foot be higher so as not to catch any water over the bow

Terry, this has been discussed many times. A couple of guys have added an inner forestay to the classic Macs, but unsure if a 26X or M has tried it. I prefer this idea to that of twin forestays, especially since we can face such conditions fairly regularly in my playground.

This is actually a pretty easy mod for the 26X. We already have a well-founded deck padeye for mast raising. It's located right between the anchor hatch and the forehatch, about 2 feet aft from the factory foretang. I'd think one could add a second hound just below the factory jib hound, and stow a second forestay along the mast, attached from those hounds to the mast step. When conditions warrant, it would be pretty easy to rig the storm jib that Leon was describing. I'd think a 20-foot luff and 7' "foot" would be perfect. Standing on the v-berth one could easily:

• "loose" the inner stay & jib halyard from stowage at the mast step;
• use a pennant, strop or short tackle, extending the inner stay to the padeye on deck;
• (a QR fitting or short tackle is required for tensioning the inner stay);
• hank-on the storm jib & sheets from a sail bag;
• and hoist away;
• and, I suppose one finally needs to go on-deck to fair the sheets.

Actually, if paired with use of a Genoa, the Jib sheets could have been pre-faired to the mast before setting out. It should be a great mod for use with the deeper reef on SF Bay.

[richandlori]

"Heavy Weather Sail aka Stormsail"


aheem.....


isn't that the 50Hp outboard?

[delevi]

"loose" the inner stay & jib halyard from stowage at the mast step;

use a pennant, strop or short tackle, extending the inner stay to the padeye on deck;

(a QR fitting or short tackle is required for tensioning the inner stay);

hank-on the storm jib & sheets from a sail bag;

and hoist away;

and, I suppose one finally needs to go on-deck to fair the sheets.

Yeah, piece of cake Frank, especially in 30+knots with the waves knocking you around every which way.

Or..... Use the furler from the cockpit Gosh, I don't know. Looks like a tough choice.
Ok, I think I've pounded this one long enough.

Cheers,
Leon

[Terry]

Yeah, piece of cake Frank, especially in 30+knots with the waves knocking you around every which way.

Or..... Use the furler from the cockpit Gosh, I don't know. Looks like a tough choice.
Ok, I think I've pounded this one long enough.

Actually, I had in mind to get the stormjib/staysail in place at the slip before getting under way where it is safe to do so. Since I do not have a roller furler this is my next best choice. The X mast raising padeye sounds doable but the M has no equivilent of it. Perhaps just having a smaller jib to hoist might be the answer for those scary windy days.

[Frank C]

Me too Terry. Since I currently have a Genoa on the furler, my idea would be to guesstimate whether conditions will demand the Genny or the storm jib, before heading out. Having chosen the storm jib though, it would surely be quick n easy to drop it and unfurl the Genny.

BTW, the mast raising padeye isn't a complex mod, but if you're not using a furler I guess there's a basic choice before heading out -- which sail to hank.

[delevi]

I'm just goofing around guys. Frank, your concept is actually a good one if you rig that 2nd stay. Terry, if you don't use a furler, deciding on the storm sail before heading out is the way to go.

I just can't forget my first demo sail with the Mac dealer when he had me go to the foredeck to hoist a hank-on jib. This was in calm seas, and my first reaction was "no freakin way am I doing this every time." That's why I'm a poster boy for roller furling.

Cheers,
L.

[Terry]

I'm just goofing around guys. Frank, your concept is actually a good one if you rig that 2nd stay. Terry, if you don't use a furler, deciding on the storm sail before heading out is the way to go.

I just can't forget my first demo sail with the Mac dealer when he had me go to the foredeck to hoist a hank-on jib. This was in calm seas, and my first reaction was "no freakin way am I doing this every time." That's why I'm a poster boy for roller furling.

Cheers,
L.

So Leon, is your main a roller furler or do you just have lines led aft? I had to laugh I mean really laugh when you wrote:

This was in calm seas, and my first reaction was "no freakin way am I doing this every time."

I have to climb up there every time for both main & jib because I don't have lines aft yet, perhaps this year. Yes it is pretty hairy hanging on to the baby stay while I hoist those sails, boat pitching and bucking like a bronco while the Admiral trys to keep her in irons and I holler "DON'T WATCH ME WATCH THE SAIL!" Sometimes it is really blowing while I go through this ordeal and I wonder what will become of me if I fall off so I really hang on tight. Once I get that main up I crouch and crawl down to the pulpit hanging on for dear life, then undo the bungees holding the headsail to the pulpit & life line. (sometimes a wave gets me). I then quickly slither back up to the mast and get her hoisted & tied off then crawl back to the cockpit. I always thought this was how all sailors do it, I have for four seasons now. Same procedure in reverse for return, you get used to it after a few times. Can't wait to get the lines aft and pair of down hauls & lazy jacks though, just got my autohelm last summer so the rest should be easy. It is only the first few times at the beginning of each season that are freaky, after that your confidence is reinforced and you're not so scared unless of course it is blowing 20 knots + then you just suck it up and go for it or put your tail between your legs and head back in. It is those days that I wish for a smaller jib.

[Frank C]

I'm just goofing around guys. Frank, your concept is actually a good one if you rig that 2nd stay. ...

There's another reason for the second stay, Leon. I have modified my mast raiser with the M-style winch. However, lifting the mast at the baby-stay bolt places way too much tension on the entire rig. I'm thinking that an inner stay would mainly be used for mast raising, and also available for a storm jib, should I ever see one in Minney's inventory.

... I have to climb up there every time for both main & jib because I don't have lines aft yet, perhaps this year. Yes it is pretty hairy hanging on to the baby stay while I hoist those sails, boat pitching and bucking like a bronco while the Admiral trys to keep her in irons and I holler "DON'T WATCH ME WATCH THE SAIL!"

Terry, your description brings back memories~! During my first season, without furler, I recall myself in the same drill. My novice sailing friend trying to steer the boat & warn me about my gymnastics. Meanwhile, me yelling at her "DON'T WATCH ME WATCH THE SAIL!"

Much easier on both of us, once I added furler & lines aft. Those were the days before the Genny. The furling jib was actually a much nicer sail for most summer days on SF Bay. I'll prolly substitute the factory jib for my UK Genoa in late Spring.

[delevi]

Terry wrote

So Leon, is your main a roller furler or do you just have lines led aft?

No, no RF main. I actually considered it but way too much of a performance compromise. You would love my setup, though. All lines led aft. Dutchman system for the main. I can drop the main, and have it neatly flaked in about 20 seconds. I don't even use sail ties if I'm just putting the cover on. The Dutchman keeps everything tidy... never a sail mess on deck and good for the sail too. If I want to motor with the sail uncovered, I just need two sail ties to keep the main snug.

As for the RF jib, the luff pad is actually quite nice. I did my usual Friday afternoon hooky-sail today. 10-15 knts wind most of the day with two stints of wind around 20 knts about 45 minutes each time. On the first stint, I reefed in about 40% of the jib with the furler. I paid close attention to the shape and height of the sail. The tack area was just a hair above the bow rail and the clew was about 8-12 inches above the life lines. The top was about 2/3 down the forestay. Sure looked like a small jib with nearly perfect shape. Eric, I hope you're reading this. On the way back, I knew I was heading into a wind funnel near Oyster point, so after heaving to for a beer break, I put the first reef in the main. Used the full jib. This was the first time I had a reef in the new main. The shape was beautiful and it was flat as board. When I made the turn around the pier and hit 20 knts winds on a close reach, the boat was screaming. 7 knots upwind, heeling on average of 20 degrees. Half way through, I took out the reef just for kicks. I did this while underway. I gained about half a knot, but heel was around 25-30 degrees. When the party was over as I approached the marina, I dropped the main, bearing off a bit to a broad reach on just the jib. Locked down the wheel brake and went on deck to tidy up the sail and put the sail cover on. All this time the boat was sailing a fairly straight course on its own with just the jib. After the cover was on, I dropped the engine, re-connected to the steering, furled the jib and motored to the marina. I must say that every penny I invested in upgrades and mods was well worth it. I have now fallen in love with this boat.

Fair Winds,
Leon

[beene]

I fell in love with mine just watching the videos of it, before I even picked her up from Bill

Love at first sight

[eric3a]

..

[beene]

That's how I chose my wife. But a boat you have to see in person!


Which one is more expensive

......and you needed to see the boat in person

[delevi]

I was wondering what the ideal heel (speed wise) of a Mac would be with it's weird squarish shape. I would think that too much (around 40) is detrimental, contrary to certain boats.

15-20 degrees is ideal, but in a strong breeze, you know that aint gonna happen. Anything over 25 degrees is when things go downhill speed-wise. 30 is still ok, but possibly time to reef. I've sailed to 45, but it's very tough not to round up at that point. I start reefing just after 20 knots. In 25 knots, I'll put the second reef in. 30+ is a double reefed main & roller reefed jib. Sometimes I get lazy so I'll furl in some jib around 20+ and still use the full main. Before the new sails, I would say the whole scale would be -5 knots and plenty of roundups. Not now Keep in mind, I have 150 lbs of lead at the bottom of my board, and the sails a bit differently than the so your results may vary.

Leon