Water Ballast Effects?

[Wind of Freedm]

Ok. We feel we may be closing in on buying either a 1998 26X or 1999 26X.

Regarding Atlantic Ocean sailing again (note: it seems that the Atlantic will be our main option to sail were we live in South Florida) -

I now am beginning to understand the terms I've heard that "this is not really a blue water sailboat" and the other term ... I had mine in the Atlantic Ocean and it "bobbed liked a cork." I laugh at that expression ... ... is "bobbing like cork" a good thing or bad thing? Anyway, a person described to me the difference between a lead ballasted sailboat vs. a water ballasted Mac. It seems that on a lead ballast sailboat the keel and lead ballast (heaver then water) is always in effect in the water. On a water ballast, the ballast does not really take effect until the Mac leans over about 5-10 (?) degrees and the ballast weight starts to come out of the "water line" and then it will hold. Makes sense since the water is the ballast is the same weight as the water on the outside. It was described that if you get a quick gust from a different angle that the Mac will lean quickly until the ballast takes effect ... seems "squirrelly."

Is this why people say it's not really a "blue water" sailboat or, the real interesting description, "bobbing like a cork" ... Hmmmm ...

[Frank C]

Is water ballast ineffective while it's below the water line .... ?? No~!
That's a fallacy. Try this test. Fill a bucket and slowly lower it into the water .... yes, it gets lighter as it drops lower, and heavier as you lift it clear.

Now carry that bucket into the cabin of any boat, and lower it to the cabin sole. Though it is dropping below the waterline, it doesn't get any lighter, does it?!
... Hmmmm!!

The answer is that the hull is a vessel, displacing that precise volume of water that offsets the weight of hull and contents. Your bucket of water is just more contents, in the atmosphere (not in the hydrosphere). The bucket of water weighs the same when contained within the hull because it is still in the atmosphere, along with everything else that you carry into that cabin. None weighs any different on land or within the hull. Same is true for the ballast tank that's molded into the Macgregor's hull ... it's contained within the greater vessel, the hull.

The Mac's tenderness to 15 degrees either side is simply a function of the hull form. Further, the ballast is held very closely to the roll center, while a large percentage of lead keel is held quite distant from the roll center.

This is both good and bad. The keelboat might carry more sail in a heavier wind, but the Mac can dump ballast, drop sails and motor home pushing three-quarters of ton less weight. It's also more economical to not push that ballast around, saying nothing of it's being lots quicker.
Pick yer poison~!

[Ron]

When people say the mac isn't a blue water sailboat I think you should take this to mean that you won't be cruising the boat from Florida down into the Carribean. However, day sails into the Altantic or even short cruises up/down the coast are fine. Sailors in California mostly sail in the Pacific -- i.e., on the ocean.

One thing about Florida is if you go far enough off-shore you enter the Gulf Stream on which the seas can really kick up if the wind is contrary to the current.

[opie]

http://www.wilmingtonstar.com/apps/pbcs ... 004/news01

As can be seen above, there are some inappropriate uses for any boat. I think walking across a highway wearing a blindfold would rank up there with this guy's boating plans. But, prayers and a wish for fair seas to him!

Searches on this board will show many cases of off-shore Mac use. I only have had mine since Sept '06 and I go out a mile or so in the Atlantic regularly now. Read all the links here you can find and your concept of what and what not to do will be clearer.

[opie]

Sorry, forgot to answer your question. I sail in the Atlantic at about a 10 percent incline, as well as I can. That means I do not go at the fullest speed possible, but trim and let out the sailsto keep my wife happy. Or head up or bear off as required. When she is happy I enjoy the trip much more. Bobbing is not a problem. I go out up to 10 to 12kts wind only. I know that is feeble compared with others' skill level on this board, but I am taking my time getting used to everything. In fact, some very pleasant hours were spent at 5kts wind, slowly going up and down in the ocean, leaning back with the Admiral and enjoying life at max. Sailing is not just teeth-into-the-wind and spray in your face, but can also be very peaceful. Not using fuel is the added benefit. Get the boat and enjoy.

[James V]

Not really sure of which way to answer this. The Mac will move faster side to side (more unstable) without the ballest. It will bounce harder and faster without the ballest.

A keel boat - Well, what type? A heavy full keep boat will do well in heavy seas, a light, racer with a narrow fin keel will do about the same as a Mac.

Your advantage, Pull every thing up, dump the water ballest and head to the bay at 15 mph if posted speeds will allow. Put the boat on a trailer and not in the slip. It shure cost a lot less.

When the winds pick up, most boats head to the harbor - keel, swing, dagger, power boat. It becomes almost a mute point as almost nobody will be on the water. Just watch the weather and do a good inspection before each trip. You should be fine.

As people tell me "That's one tough little boat" "That boat has gone far"

[Mikebe]

The way I see it, there is an element of risk in everything you do. Life would be pretty dull if that were not the case. Until you start getting up to something the size of a ship, I don't see much difference in the safety of the various small sailboats out on the big ocean. In bad weather they are all unsafe. All try to avoid the bad weather, and the boat itself doesn't have a lot to do with that. But what if you go out and get caught in bad weather anyway? Which boat would you rather be in? People ask. Well, it's a risk all sailors take every time they get under way, and not just on the big ocean. The boat I'd rather be on is any boat that isn't caught in the storm. I don't remember who first said that "Living one day as a Lion is better than living 100 years as a Sheep", but it's a saying that's been around for a long, long time.

EDIT:
Yes, I forgot to answer the question too...yes, it bobs and wallows because as Frank said the center of mass is closer to the fulcrum. The ballast, whether keel or in hull, makes the boat act like a pendulum, only with the Mac it's a short pendulum. Other reasons I've heard mostly have to do with how well the boat can handle adverse weather conditions. I expect you'll plan to stay away from adverse weather, whichever boat you get....

[Catigale]

Here are some gems from that story that point to a disaster in the making...

but Altman assured his family and friends that his small Cape Dory Typhoon sailboat would be safe.

After all, he's received advice from a man who holds the world record for sailing across the Atlantic Ocean in the smallest boat

I would take experience over advice methinks..

But the threat of storms doesn't have him too worried.

"This is the time to sail," he said, adding that he thinks hurricanes typically stay farther south in the beginning of the season.

"Turn-back is a word people use, but it's not one I'm going to use," he said.

Altman, of Cherry Grove, S.C., estimates it will take about 10 days to make the 700-mile voyage, which will be the first time he's sailed for longer than five days alone.

Some have called him crazy, but Altman assured his family and friends that his small Cape Dory Typhoon sailboat would be safe

I wish him well and hope he makes it safely and has a good time. I dont think this 'proves anything' though, other than you can be lucky.

Much cheaper and safer to buy two dice and roll them until you roll 10 snake eyes in a row and then bask in your luck...

[daver360]

Had my mac for over a year now. 96X My first sailboat, had a few power boats before. I don't know what people are talking about when they say the mac doesn't do well in choppy water. Last Sunday Memorial day weekend, I was on the way back from Seattle and hit some heavy white caps. Had people sheltering in the cabin. Simple, turn the bow into the waves, idle the motor, fill up the ballast. Boat ran like a cadillac through some 4 foot chop. As far as sailing and the ballast is concerned. If my boat doesn't heel 25 degrees and over, it isn't exciting. I think the boat does exactly what its suppose to and handles great as far as sailing and the water ballast is concerned.
Was in the Navy and lived in Flordia for a little. The seas down there always seemed alot calmer then lets say the Mid-Atlantic or the Pacific ocean up here. I think the boat will be great down there! Good luck!

[Wind of Freedom]

Thanks to everyone for their replies ... we love this website!

[tangentair]

Having lived once in Fl for a while and experienced the Gulf Stream’s temperaments on more than one occasion, I have to reply to this after seeing those children in the avatar. If you have done minimal time in the Atlantic and especially the Gulf Stream, do not expect a MAC or any boat for that matter to make up for your inexperience. Stay on the inner coastal or just off-shore for a while, it was my experience that there were more than enough of us clam digging heathens in need of ministering there. It is just too easy to for an inexperienced sailor to miss read the sea and weather conditions and end up in disaster. The boats the “run” over for lunch to the Bahamas, have hundreds of horse power, multi-engines and are usually 30+ foot to make the crossing quickly, sail boats (and powerboats making less than 10 knots due to sea conditions) start at night because you do not want to arrive there at night, the harbors are too tricky to enter after dark without experience, so you have to be prepared for 9 hours of darkness, seas that change with a slight wind shift, and fatigue induced disorientation, That’s a lot of risk to drag children into. If you do try it in a Mac, please do not remove any of the built in floatation and be sure you have at least one independently powered water proof VHF. IMO the Keys are great MAC waters as is most of the coast from Tampa down to Naples.

[Wind of Freedom]

tangentair - thank you for the words of caution. They are well noted! I have many years of experience offshore (Altantic) Scuba diving out of a small 21 ft. boat (... in my more wilder days before kids). I consider myself experience from that perspective. However, I only have limited experience in sailboats so this will be a new deal. Yes, if my children are onboard, I really don't plan on the Atlantic in the MacGregor until I gain a lot more experience, and even then, I would be cautious with them. I agree on the Keys, Intercoastal or bays.

Actually, when I had my 21 ft Mercruiser powerboat, I came awfully close to a huge disaster with my family aboard in the notorious Jupiter Inlet ... the inlet that has made nightly news more then once with large boats flipping. It gives me chills just to think about my close call ... talk about shouting out prayers ... my engine died in the middle of the inlet and, by God's grace, started just before the next large wave hit us broad side and threw us on the the rocks ...

Anyway, we love this website and it great be a part of people that care so much. I hope that I am as much help to other people that you all have been to us.