Water Storage And System.
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Boblee
- Admiral
- Posts: 1702
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:08 am
- Location: Berrigan, Riverina Australia boatless at present
Water Storage And System.
We have put the above mod on the Mac Mods Page hopefully it will give someone an idea that may fit their application or give advice to prompt me to modify it and make it better.
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Boblee
- Admiral
- Posts: 1702
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:08 am
- Location: Berrigan, Riverina Australia boatless at present
Divecoz
The diverters (Y valves) are just garden irrigation fittings that normally go on the taps and not sure about the silver switch but if it is the tap with the yellow handle it is an isolator for the galley supply and similar to the one below the sink which isolates the old manual tap.
Have used the Y type valves for years in our trailer for a similar system and they work great.
Teejay
The filler is also the outlet and water is either pumped in or by external pressure (mains) the only problem is making sure there is no air in the supply as it then sits at the top of the bladder. The normal fill is underneath and blancked off and yes it would be great to have a vent on top. Tried turning it upside down and filling from the top then with the outlet on the bottom but because of the fitting you can't drain it.
This works great but when filling from buckets we have to be sure to get no air in the line which has to be pumped out and replaced with water (time) , it only happened once.
Re the trim we have a third battery under the vee berth and until I build the permanent tank there we also carry 20 + litres of water beside the battery.
There is also a 70 litre fridge freezer opposite the head we rarely have to move sideways to trim boat and the black line is level all round.
The bladder is anchored at the corners by nylon string which I fibreglassed to the hull to stop it moving.
I think being so low it helps with ballast and being narrow does not make it more tender, besides even when full it is only 80 kg (176 lb).
The diverters (Y valves) are just garden irrigation fittings that normally go on the taps and not sure about the silver switch but if it is the tap with the yellow handle it is an isolator for the galley supply and similar to the one below the sink which isolates the old manual tap.
Have used the Y type valves for years in our trailer for a similar system and they work great.
Teejay
The filler is also the outlet and water is either pumped in or by external pressure (mains) the only problem is making sure there is no air in the supply as it then sits at the top of the bladder. The normal fill is underneath and blancked off and yes it would be great to have a vent on top. Tried turning it upside down and filling from the top then with the outlet on the bottom but because of the fitting you can't drain it.
This works great but when filling from buckets we have to be sure to get no air in the line which has to be pumped out and replaced with water (time) , it only happened once.
Re the trim we have a third battery under the vee berth and until I build the permanent tank there we also carry 20 + litres of water beside the battery.
There is also a 70 litre fridge freezer opposite the head we rarely have to move sideways to trim boat and the black line is level all round.
The bladder is anchored at the corners by nylon string which I fibreglassed to the hull to stop it moving.
I think being so low it helps with ballast and being narrow does not make it more tender, besides even when full it is only 80 kg (176 lb).
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James V
- Admiral
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:33 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Key West, Fl USA, 26M 06, Merc 50hp BF "LYNX"
Ineresting. I was told that something was needed underneath and above to prevent chaft. As I recall these tanks need 17 inches to fully expand and there is only about 8 inches clearance. Was you able to get a full 40 gal's in it?
Have you tasted the water yet? Did you need to flush the tank before use?
Have you tasted the water yet? Did you need to flush the tank before use?
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Boblee
- Admiral
- Posts: 1702
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:08 am
- Location: Berrigan, Riverina Australia boatless at present
James
I sanded the hull (bottom ) surface down prior to putting the bladder in and you can probably see that I have glued heavy material under the framework (top).
As I said on the mod page we only get 80 litres (21 gal) due to the restriction, it was actually more than I expected.
Looked at a catalogue and they say it expands to 250mm (10"), when full it is hard against the underside of the frame.
I have just had it out after approx 1200 klm's (750 miles) on the water over 5 months and 4000 klm on the road, there was one small mark on the outer casing where the original protection had come adrift.
The drinking water is perfect including smells, as it goes through the filters described.
On our trailer with a similar system but with a 5 micron primary filter we used water that could only be described as muddy, after 5 months travel using every day and getting perfectly clean and tastless water, I removed the filters.
The pre filter case was half full of hard packed clay but the charcoal filter in that case 1 micron was hardly stained.
Note .5 micron is supposed to filter out 99.9% of contaminants including viruses.
In well over 18months of travel using a similar system with water from every different source including some more than questionable supplies we have never had health problems.
There are higher rated filters than ours but for $150 and being able to fit it in the small place I am happy.
No I did not flush the tank first and my wife who is very fussy can taste absolutely nothing but I did sniff it (the tank) and it did have a smell.
Bob
I sanded the hull (bottom ) surface down prior to putting the bladder in and you can probably see that I have glued heavy material under the framework (top).
As I said on the mod page we only get 80 litres (21 gal) due to the restriction, it was actually more than I expected.
Looked at a catalogue and they say it expands to 250mm (10"), when full it is hard against the underside of the frame.
I have just had it out after approx 1200 klm's (750 miles) on the water over 5 months and 4000 klm on the road, there was one small mark on the outer casing where the original protection had come adrift.
The drinking water is perfect including smells, as it goes through the filters described.
On our trailer with a similar system but with a 5 micron primary filter we used water that could only be described as muddy, after 5 months travel using every day and getting perfectly clean and tastless water, I removed the filters.
The pre filter case was half full of hard packed clay but the charcoal filter in that case 1 micron was hardly stained.
Note .5 micron is supposed to filter out 99.9% of contaminants including viruses.
In well over 18months of travel using a similar system with water from every different source including some more than questionable supplies we have never had health problems.
There are higher rated filters than ours but for $150 and being able to fit it in the small place I am happy.
No I did not flush the tank first and my wife who is very fussy can taste absolutely nothing but I did sniff it (the tank) and it did have a smell.
Bob
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Terry
- Admiral
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:35 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada. '03 26M - New Yamaha 70
Yes, I sanded and painted my bilges with white gelcoat, everywhere. Still I did not trust those plastimo bags despite the heavy nylon protective bag so I got me a piece of one of those heavy rubber mats one can buy off the roll and laid that under then wrapped it over for additional protection. I also only have the 50 litre bag and it is square so maintains the weight more forward. The only downside I see with the longer rectangular bigger capacity bag is the tendency to displace weight further aft, something I don't want. Perhaps I may get an additional 50 litre bag but that makes my two bags almost double the cost of one big bag and I still may not get 100 litres from the deal. Compromises...I hate them.
The extra filters sound like a good idea as I don't have them, but then we don't drink from that bag, it is generally for washing. We carry bottled water and other refreshments in the forward holds for internal use and that helps displace weight forward. It is a bit trying to keep these boats balanced when on extended trips.
The extra filters sound like a good idea as I don't have them, but then we don't drink from that bag, it is generally for washing. We carry bottled water and other refreshments in the forward holds for internal use and that helps displace weight forward. It is a bit trying to keep these boats balanced when on extended trips.
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Boblee
- Admiral
- Posts: 1702
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:08 am
- Location: Berrigan, Riverina Australia boatless at present
Terry
Was going to put something underneath and the white gelcoat is a great idea for sealing but after pulling it out and checking am very confident.
Looked at the two bags but think you would get less than the one big bag, as for the weight moving back under power, that could happen when not full, otherwise it is hard up on the support at the ladder end and pegged there.
WHEN I put a bigger motor on may look at fabricating some smaller aluminium tanks and linking them to stop movement.
That space under the rear berth is annoying me as I can't find anything to put there and it's nice and low so it should help stability.
Actually we have more storage than we use it's more a problem as you said of laying it out for balance and priorities.
When travelling here accessing quality drinking water is a priority, once you are aclimatised to a local water there is no problem but every supply seems to have different bugs and tastes the filters are great and easy.
Where we like to be the nearest supermarket could be 500k's away and for practical reasons (roads) may as well be on the moon.
We are now restricted to bitumen or better roads with the Mac but there is an awful lot of magic coastline (and awsome fishing) that is only accessible by hundreds of k's of water.
Was going to put something underneath and the white gelcoat is a great idea for sealing but after pulling it out and checking am very confident.
Looked at the two bags but think you would get less than the one big bag, as for the weight moving back under power, that could happen when not full, otherwise it is hard up on the support at the ladder end and pegged there.
WHEN I put a bigger motor on may look at fabricating some smaller aluminium tanks and linking them to stop movement.
That space under the rear berth is annoying me as I can't find anything to put there and it's nice and low so it should help stability.
Actually we have more storage than we use it's more a problem as you said of laying it out for balance and priorities.
When travelling here accessing quality drinking water is a priority, once you are aclimatised to a local water there is no problem but every supply seems to have different bugs and tastes the filters are great and easy.
Where we like to be the nearest supermarket could be 500k's away and for practical reasons (roads) may as well be on the moon.
We are now restricted to bitumen or better roads with the Mac but there is an awful lot of magic coastline (and awsome fishing) that is only accessible by hundreds of k's of water.
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Boblee
- Admiral
- Posts: 1702
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:08 am
- Location: Berrigan, Riverina Australia boatless at present
Catigale
Supposed PERFORMANCE SHEET for 1micron filter
Production rate 1.5 Lpm for best results.
Contaminant
Organic
Chlorine Over 95%
Herbicides Over 95%
Pesticides Over 95%
DDT Over 95%
Endrin Over 95%
Lindane Over 95%
Aldrin Over 95%
Benzene Over 95%
VOCs Over 95%
Arizin Over 95%
Over 95%
Phenol Over 95%
Trihalomethanes Over 95%
Toxaphene Over 95%
Dichloromethane Over 95%
Chloroform Over 95%
Trichlorethylene Over 95%
Perchlorethylene Over 95%
Tannic Acids Over 95%
950PL Only
Cryptosporidium Over 99%
Giardia Cysts Over 99%
I reckon if you can take out 99.9% of contaminants including viruses there should be a few less bacteria included in that cryptosporidium and Giardia cysts I understand are the important ones.
Speaking from a purely laymans point of view of course.
James
The only problem with that is if you use a pressure system with the old hand pump it will need another stop valve in line that is easily accessible.
We get very good pressure from the other faucet on the sink (came with filters), originally I planned on having a separate faucet bypassing the filter but found (that is what the extra plug is on the other side of the hand pump
) it was unneccessary.
If you are worried about volume clogging the filter up, don't as it will/is suggested to require replacement/cleaning each year? and unless you are livaboard or using really muddy water you will not have a problem.
We have a stop valve under the sink for the hand pump and it draws from the filter inlet line as I wasn't sure whether it would be able to draw through the filters, it is just an emergency standby.
Had a look at ebay.com but the filters there are all fairly bulky we got ours off ebay.com.au but you could probably split up some of the reverse osmosis types to make them fit/more practical.
Quote:
Note .5 micron is supposed to filter out 99.9% of contaminants including viruses
Bacteria in water make you sick - not viruses...to be a bit of a Microbiological nitpicker.
Supposed PERFORMANCE SHEET for 1micron filter
Production rate 1.5 Lpm for best results.
Contaminant
Organic
Chlorine Over 95%
Herbicides Over 95%
Pesticides Over 95%
DDT Over 95%
Endrin Over 95%
Lindane Over 95%
Aldrin Over 95%
Benzene Over 95%
VOCs Over 95%
Arizin Over 95%
Over 95%
Phenol Over 95%
Trihalomethanes Over 95%
Toxaphene Over 95%
Dichloromethane Over 95%
Chloroform Over 95%
Trichlorethylene Over 95%
Perchlorethylene Over 95%
Tannic Acids Over 95%
950PL Only
Cryptosporidium Over 99%
Giardia Cysts Over 99%
I reckon if you can take out 99.9% of contaminants including viruses there should be a few less bacteria included in that
cryptosporidium and Giardia cysts I understand are the important ones.Speaking from a purely laymans point of view of course.
James
The only problem with that is if you use a pressure system with the old hand pump it will need another stop valve in line that is easily accessible.
We get very good pressure from the other faucet on the sink (came with filters), originally I planned on having a separate faucet bypassing the filter but found (that is what the extra plug is on the other side of the hand pump
) it was unneccessary.If you are worried about volume clogging the filter up, don't as it will/is suggested to require replacement/cleaning each year? and unless you are livaboard or using really muddy water you will not have a problem.
We have a stop valve under the sink for the hand pump and it draws from the filter inlet line as I wasn't sure whether it would be able to draw through the filters, it is just an emergency standby.
Had a look at ebay.com but the filters there are all fairly bulky we got ours off ebay.com.au but you could probably split up some of the reverse osmosis types to make them fit/more practical.
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Boblee
- Admiral
- Posts: 1702
- Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:08 am
- Location: Berrigan, Riverina Australia boatless at present
Don't know don't care, if it looks clean tastes clean an it doesn't make me sick it probably is ok and it's a hull of a lot better than pre filtered.
Only go by the results, we have not had a problem yet but others have regularly.
BTW I think on the whole and within reason we worry too much about these things as our gut needs to know about these bugs.
Usually unless desperate we will only fill from supplies that others are using and not having problems and if in doubt boil.
The problem for us (and others) is that we are sampling all different bugs, whereas locals have time to acclimatise, eg the water tank that has a couple of dead possums and is home for mosquito's.
Or the town supply with a dead roo in it etc.
Ever stop to think about what contributes to that clear mountain stream.
Only go by the results, we have not had a problem yet but others have regularly.
BTW I think on the whole and within reason we worry too much about these things as our gut needs to know about these bugs.
Usually unless desperate we will only fill from supplies that others are using and not having problems and if in doubt boil.
The problem for us (and others) is that we are sampling all different bugs, whereas locals have time to acclimatise, eg the water tank that has a couple of dead possums and is home for mosquito's.
Or the town supply with a dead roo in it etc.
Ever stop to think about what contributes to that clear mountain stream.