26 very tippy can we do something

[suheim]

I bought a Mc.Gregor 26 18 months ago and find it very tippy in anything more than 10 knots and then drop sails and switch to motoring it. Can we centre weight the dagger board or have any other solution. this is tippy with ballast tanks full .

[kadet]

Having come from a Cat background I found the Mac very "tippy" at first. I have found now after sailing her for bit that the boat does not stiffen till 15 degrees of heal. I found that once I overcame my fear of broaching (after reading other post here about heal) in the she easily sails well in 20 knots with full main and genny all be it at 30 degress

I think it is the nature of the beast so learn to walk on a good lean and stow everything well secured

[NiceAft]

It is the nature of the boat

There isn't any keel to act as a significant drag in the water. Also, the boat is very narrow, so there isn't much counterbalance weight. In time you will accept this, and hopefully use it to your advantage. Sailing at a 45 degree angle (or greater ) is fun. You don't move very fast, but it gives a thrilling ride. Just be certain to clean up below afterwards

It may help you to feel more comfortable if you know the angle you are at any time. Try getting one of these . You will be surprised at how reassuring it is when you look and say "I been at this angle before"

While we are on the subject of a "tippy" boat, wear (you and your crew) a PFD at all times under sail . My nephew had a bib that said "SPIT HAPPENS" When you need a PFD, it could be too late to start grabbing for one

Ray

[BigNige]

When you complain of the boat being "tippy" I presume you are talking of its rolling (side to side) rather than pitching (fore and aft). I have also had my M for 18 months and found it rolled a lot but find this more disconcerting when stationary and trying to do something on deck than when sailing. I would agree with the above comments about heel. The boat really does sail better into the wind at between 15 and 20 degrees of heel and I have found my new Clinometer both useful and reassuring in achieving this. I can't say I would recommend you ever getting near 45 degrees. Whilst exhilerating it certainly is, the rudder isn't designed for it and will break at the headstock (I know I've done it). As for motoring above 10 knots of windspeed well I think that most people would agree that whilst the MacGregor is a compromise in all things it is far more compromised as a power boat than it is under sail particularly at mid-range speeds. Its fine pottering around the berths with EVERYTHING down (up to 6 knots) or flat out with everything up but there just doesn't seem to be a happy middle ground and I usually head for home.

[Moe]

The sailing term for tippy is "tender" and the MacGregor powersailors are worse than many, if not most boats when it comes to that. It's just part of the price you pay for a relatively narrow boat for its size so it can fit in a shipping container, the standing headroom in the cabin which puts the sails up high where they have more leverage to heel the boat over, as well as a high cockpit which puts the crew up high raising the center of gravity, and the internal ballast that allows the boat to sit low on the trailer and be beachable, not to mention motor at greater than hull speed, but being up high inside the boat, has less effect to keep the boat upright. It's the nature of the beast.

At the other end of the extreme, you have pure keelboats, such as our Capri 18, that are wider relative to their size, have lower cabins that allow the sails to be lower, have much shorter sides (less freeboard to allow the wind to blow the boat where you don't want it to go, another problem with the Mac powersailors), a lower cockpit, and lead keels down low below the boat. For any given wind and sail trim, our Capri 18 exhibits literally half the heel angle our Mac 26X powersailor had. But we don't have standing headroom, we have to extend the trailer tongue to launch and retrieve, and in water less than 2' 4" (short inseam) deep, we're aground. So you pay your money and accept your compromises, or trade to another set of compromises.

One skill you should develop is learning to reef the mainsail, as well as furl the foresail under higher winds. This will let you put off dowsing the sails completely and motoring. Reefing and furling (or dowsing a non-furling jib) dramatically reduce heel angle in higher winds. They can turn a white-knuckled day into a nice family sail. Adjusting sail area and trim are routine parts of sailing you should learn and use.

Hope this helps,
--
Moe

[NiceAft]

BigNige,

I found you comment

Whilst exhilerating it certainly is, the rudder isn't designed for it and will break at the headstock (I know I've done it).

very interesting. I've not heard of that problem, the rudders breaking when at an extreme heel. There have been posts about Mac's being knocked down, and never having mentioned that problem. You would expect that with such a sudden and severe lateral force on a rudder, it would snap when the boat is knocked over, but when heeling

Ray

[Highlander]

Well I've had Beene's 26m heeled well over 55deg with one of the rudders completly right out of the water & him hiked right out their shooting the video"s one was posted on this sight ! , we have done this more than a few times in some pretty nasty stuff never brkn a rudder yet, he did buy a set of idasailor rudder's this early spring as I did just beat the price increase so he has a good set of spare rudders maybe you hit something in the water ! I hit a tree stump floating about 12" under the water last year while sailing and sheared a pin on one of my Mac19 rudders their apita to change in the water

J

[NiceAft]

Well I've had Beene's 26m heeled well over 55deg with one of the rudders completly right out of the water

OK John, now I'm jealous

When the Admiral gets home from her business trip, I'm showing her this. I'm sure she's up for the challenge. Our indicator only goes up to 45 degrees What do you use

Ray

P.S. I've got another lead on a bottle of Monkey Shoulders. That stuff better be good after the effort I've been making

[Highlander]

Ray said
P.S. I've got another lead on a bottle of Monkey Shoulders. That stuff better be good after the effort I've been making

You'd better send that bottle up to me for taste testing ! just so as I can make sure you got the genuine product I promise to return the mty bottle

j

[BigNige]

A bit more on the broken rudder seems appropriate.

I had decided to sit out an approaching storm which are usually short and sharp here typically blowing over in 20 minutes or less. So I furled the headsail and took down the main by which time It was howling. Head up into the wind I needed 3-3,500 rpm to maintain steerage at about 2.5 knots. All was well but I was heading away from the marina and conditions weren't getting any better so I waited for a gap in the waves and turned and ran downwind and into the Marina. Feeling safe and pretty pleased with myself as I entered between the sea wall and the pilings I was hit by a gust that was probably accentuated by the fact that the marina lies between 2 hotels which funnel the wind across the marina entrance (i had no sails up) and the boat heeled severly. In fighting the rudder to remain straight and avoid hitting wall or piles that was when I think the rudder broke.

Now here's my theory of why it broke.

If you are sailing upright and turn the rudders the force on them twists them in the rudder bracket but as the boat heels and you are attempting to turn sharply, a bending moment results as if you were holding the end of the rudder and pulling it sideways which by the time you get to a heel angle of 45 degrees is quite considerable. The rudder was damaged by a crack right across the top (front to rear) which propagated down through the pivot bolt to lift off a triangular wedge of fibreglass.

I wish I had taken a picture of it. For the moment I've repaired it by cutting a deep channel through the crack and filling it with MarineTex but will replace it soon.

[NiceAft]

If I remember correctly, Mad Mike posted not so long ago a post about upgrades he has done to Zeno's Arrow. One of the upgrades he wrote about was his rudders, and why the standard ones would not be good for his planned sail across the Pacific to Hawaii. His example (if I remember well) was turning on a fire hose, full force, two feet away, on a Mac rudder. If it survived, it would be good enough. Your example was fitting for MM's trip. I don't think it is representative of heeling above 45 degrees. Before changing my course, I would be releasing the main sheet.

Your posted story was worthwhile reading. Thanks

Ray

[Tony D-26X_SusieQ]

If I remember correctly, Mad Mike posted not so long ago a post about upgrades he has done to Zeno's Arrow. One of the upgrades he wrote about was his rudders, and why the standard ones would not be good for his planned sail across the Pacific to Hawaii. His example (if I remember well) was turning on a fire hose, full force, two feet away, on a Mac rudder. If it survived, it would be good enough. Your example was fitting for MM's trip. I don't think it is representative of heeling above 45 degrees. Before changing my course, I would be releasing the main sheet.

Your posted story was worthwhile reading. Thanks

Ray

If I remember corectly the trade winds blow at a steady 45MPH. That will put a good strain on any rudder.