Honda BF50 Low idle and carburation problem

[SquidMan]

I've checked some of the forums here regarding the BF50 but nothing on what I'm looking for so if someone could help,..it would be greatly appreciated.
I've taken our recently purchased 2001 for 3 trips on our Lake here, and keep getting problems with low idle (around 200 t0 300) and the engine stalls out when it is cold but appears ok or seems that way when warmer but will stall if I shift from forward into neutral to go to reverse which can be somewhat scary when attempting to dock.
Is there some way I can raise the idle speed on the BF50? I've also checked the gas which is new gas and clean but also added the recommended Sea Foam for added protection, and still same problem. I was told that I may have carburetor problems.
Is there a recommended solvent that will clean carburators when added to the tank or is Sea Foam additive sufficient for this?
The engine was sitting for over a year but I don't believe that this is the problem. I have no inline filter, and thinking of getting a water separator if that might help? Thanks in advance for your help, and advise on this

[atzserv]

My problem was very similar and I adjusted the idle. On the Honda 50 it is the lower set screw of the 3 carbs. My Honda is a 2006 and I use stabil additive. Works great now.

Each carb has an adjustment screw, the bottom carb adjustment screw is the idle adjustment. I made the adjustment while flushing the motor on the trailer. I got to thinking with backpressure once the motor was back in the water it might not have been enough of an adjustment. Not the case. It was too high and shifted kinda hard. I took the cover off while out on the water and it is really easy to get to the adjusting screw and I lowered the idle some, and checked the shifting in forward and reverse. Now when I dock I don't fear the same stalling you experienced. I didn't use a tach for setting it up or any other instruments. I just know it idles nicely shifts smoothly so must be about right.
Gary

[puggsy]

I have been using a product called FUEL SET, a green coloured additive, in my light ute for near on six years. And still on the same set of plugs. runs like a swiss watch. I credit FUEL SET for keeping the whole fuel system clean. I am now adding it to the fuel for my Suzuki 50 on SEAHORSE. Every so often you can hear the motor cough a little bit and then settle back down to smooth running. I think its the additive doing its job and shifting gunk.
Puggsy

[Kelly Hanson East]

Isnt 200-300 rpm way too low an idle for that motor (check your idle speed specs in manual)...if that too low obvioulsy it is going to stall out when you shift into gear...

Idle speed wont suddenly change - my guess is some gunk has worked its way into your carb and is causing the low idle.

[KayakDan]

I have had the same problem,and it's really annoying.
I use fuel stabilizer,and fresh fuel,and I have a water seperator,and the regular fuel filter in the line,and still I get the idle problem when it's warmed up. Runs fine until it's warmed up,then the low idle starts.

I ran the motor at nearly 4500rpm fpr about 8 miles on Champlain,and it idled great after that-for about 2 days,then back to the idle problem.

I,m starting to think it may be an ethanol fuel situation,or a richness adjustment.

[Paul S]

I have had the same problem,and it's really annoying.
I use fuel stabilizer,and fresh fuel,and I have a water seperator,and the regular fuel filter in the line,and still I get the idle problem when it's warmed up. Runs fine until it's warmed up,then the low idle starts.

I ran the motor at nearly 4500rpm fpr about 8 miles on Champlain,and it idled great after that-for about 2 days,then back to the idle problem.

I,m starting to think it may be an ethanol fuel situation,or a richness adjustment.

Maybe the automatic choke is acting up? We had a problem on our honda (manual choke), it idling too low when cold. a slight idle adjustment and it is fine, better when warmed up. Maybe try bumping the idle up a bit (maybe 1/4 turn of the screw) when warmed up, might just be the ticket

With all the ethanol hoopla, the only effect I have seen is a few dry cracked fuel lines on my MG. I just add a generous amount of stabil in the winter to the boats fuel tank, nothing in the summer. Been fine ....so far!

I bet it is the choke needs a tweak. I had a problem similar on my MG, the auto choke (weber downdraft) wasnt fully opening, a slight adjustment on the choke when warm and it was perfect.

[NiceAft]

Thanks Gary.

I felt that the idle on my Honda 50 was a bit low also. I took a different approach. I noticed that while I held the idle lever at a certain position, the idle was fine, but the lever would not stay in place, so, I wedged a piece of line between the lever and the pedestal. The idle was fine, and I was able to address other issues. It's temporary, but it works.


Ray

[SquidMan]

Thanks for all your input guys. I will try the idle adjustment today, and let you know if this works or not. Also as someone mentioned here,...there might be an issue with carb gunk, and I have heard that acetone added to the fuel in small amounts will also help clean the carb. Has anyone heard of this as well?

[Paul S]

and I have heard that acetone added to the fuel in small amounts will also help clean the carb. Has anyone heard of this as well?

Only if you want to destroy the carb, tank or lines! Put only fuel and engineered fuel additives (stabil, fuel cleaner, etc) to the tank. Do not succumb to this modern myth. It ranks up there with keeping batteries off of concrete (another modern myth).

If you want to clean them use fuel system cleaner (techron, stp etc) or take the carbs off and rebuild/clean them by hand.

[atzserv]

Ray,

Interesting. My Honda is a 2006 model and while trying to get docked and lined up on the trailer ( I have to power on to my trailer because of ramp design) I used the idle lever on the throttle to keep it running. I can use full idle on the lever and it stays and at lower idle speeds it spring loads back to the bottom setting. But wedging won't work for me because as soon as the idle lever leaves its low setting it locks out the shifter. I mean I get no option of forward or reverse. Full idle is pretty high too. Way too high to let it sit and idle at least unless I need 2k rpm to charge the batteries.

On another note for these Honda 50's. Does anyone know if the rev limiter is monitoring the oil level? I mean I had the oil changed for the first time by the marina as the motor was new and all. I noticed just a few weeks ago the oil level is too high. I don't check it everytime I go out. My throttle control has 2 lights, one for temp one for oil Both stay green. But.... I can only get about 3000-3500 rpm's out of the engine at WOT. It is my understanding that the rev limiter is set to about this range. Any thoughts would be great. I havn't taken out the extra oil just yet, too much fun at my new marina because I can raise the sails in just a couple hundred feet of the dock.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

The other thing that can happen on a multi-carb engine to affect idle is that the synchronization can get out of whack. Normally this is something that most people leave to a dealer but its not too hard to do yourself if you get a mercury gauge. When I dissasembled my carbs a few years ago and synced them up, I noticed that the adjustment screws turned very easily on their own (not enough tension from the springs that are supposed to hold them). In fact, I found the adjustment would go out of whack just a few mins of vibration after I set them. So what I did was got it all adjusted perfectly, then shut down the motor, and put a dab of silicone on each screw to hold it in place. Then I didn't start the motor until the next day so that the silicone would be completely set up.

My motor idled like a champ for the next 3+ years but this year it has begun acting up a bit again (makes you learn how to do a perfect dock approach speed when there is a good chance your motor will conk out when you try to shift to reverse). I'm not fond of having to take the boat out and clean the carbs again although this time its not so obvious like 4 years ago when it was the high speed operation that was affected and I found a piece of crap in one of the high speed jets. So I figure now it is either choke malfunction (or some other sort of linkage malfunction) or maybe some gum in the carbs, or maybe the sync. Problem is that it is intermittent, sometimes it will idle fine, so that has me leaning towards linkage which should be something I can do with the boat still on the water...ie, make sure that all linkages and auto choke are well lubed and working properly.

[NiceAft]

Atzserv,

I may have given the wrong idea when I said that I wedge a line between the idle lever and the pedestal base. This will only work when in neutral. Not in gear. I can not engaged the the shifter if the neutral lever is in use. I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression.



Ray

[atzserv]

I was out Sunday of the Labor day weekend. I had just posted the idle setting procedure on here and was surprised to have my motor die while at the dock getting ready to launch. I reset it again while out. I am pretty sure the suggestion about a spot of silicone is a great piece of advice. I did notice how easily the srew turned. Actually I recall thinking it seemed a little too easy the first time I set it. So another great idea that I am betting will put this issue to rest.

Thanks once again.

Gary

Ray,

The wedge idea came in handy yesterday also, I have a raymarine chartplotter and the only way I can start the motor and not have the plotter power off is to have both batteries on my perko set to both. after 5 or more hours of sailing, I started the motor wedged a piece of paper so the idle was higher and not at the extreme and let it run for a while watching the volts setting on the chartplotter as it came up to 13.1 volts. Another handy idea.

[SquidMan]

I have had the same problem,and it's really annoying.
I use fuel stabilizer,and fresh fuel,and I have a water seperator,and the regular fuel filter in the line,and still I get the idle problem when it's warmed up. Runs fine until it's warmed up,then the low idle starts.

I ran the motor at nearly 4500rpm fpr about 8 miles on Champlain,and it idled great after that-for about 2 days,then back to the idle problem.

I,m starting to think it may be an ethanol fuel situation,or a richness adjustment.

Maybe the automatic choke is acting up? We had a problem on our honda (manual choke), it idling too low when cold. a slight idle adjustment and it is fine, better when warmed up. Maybe try bumping the idle up a bit (maybe 1/4 turn of the screw) when warmed up, might just be the ticket

With all the ethanol hoopla, the only effect I have seen is a few dry cracked fuel lines on my MG. I just add a generous amount of stabil in the winter to the boats fuel tank, nothing in the summer. Been fine ....so far!

I bet it is the choke needs a tweak. I had a problem similar on my MG, the auto choke (weber downdraft) wasnt fully opening, a slight adjustment on the choke when warm and it was perfect.

OK,…I tried the bottom carb idle screw or what at least I think is the idle screw (a picture here would be great if someone has one?) I couldn’t turn it clockwise as it was has far as it will go so I tried a quarter turn counter clockwise and started seeing gas in the water as the engine was running so I moved it back to it’s original position, and tired some more Seafoam in it. Don’t know if that helped but while motoring I notice the engine would for no reason,..start reving from between 1,600 and 1,800 to 2,500,…stay there for a few minutes (10 min.) then go back down to 1,600.00 and sometimes lower to 1,200. I was motoring with full ballast at top speed (getting only 2,000rpm) and doing 4.6 knots. It would sometimes shut down by itself at lower speeds. I would let it sit for awhile (10-15 min.) and try it again but would need to use the idle lever on the throttle to get it going but notice that when warm,..I sometimes don’t need to use the idle lever for fast throttle. Can one flood the carbs by using the idle lever to much?
I had another close call when going under the bridge at the same time as one more boat was coming through and the engine died when I shifted into reverse so not to hit the other boat but it restarted again after some very quick moves on my part
I really need to know if I’m actually turning the right carb screws. The screw I'm guessing faces out from the carbs and the bottom carb is the only one I tried to adjust but no change in idle

[NiceAft]

Squid,

Is it possible to photograph with a digital camera set at the close-up setting. The icon is usually a tulip. If you can do that, and post the picture, maybe one of the fellows who has more experience can identify if you are turning the correct screw

Ray