While motoring over to Boothbay Harbor from the Maine Maritime Museum yesterday, I ran into some problems with my Honda BF50. When we hit some turbulence in the narrower parts of the Sasanoa, the RPMs would drop precipitously, and the engine would run rough. It even stalled a couple of times, and was difficult to restart (having to crank your engine in a 6 knot current with lots of holiday boat traffic around is the sort of excitement I can live without). No warning lights or alarms on the control unit.
I decided that it would be prudent to turn around and head back before the engine quit altogether, but I found a quiet cove where I could drop anchor and pull the engine cover off to take a look.
Fuel filter looked fine; squeezing the bulb on the fuel line refilled the fuel filter (I had emptied it just in case). linkages were good, throttle moved easily.
However, I noticed two small clear tubes leading from the back side of the carb assembly that appeared to be vents or air intakes of some sort, since the other ends of them fed into vent holes in the engine housing base. It looked like some small insect had decided to build mud-nests inside both of them, so I pulled them off and cleaned the crud out the best I could.
There was also a black rubber tube that was connected to the engine on one end, but its other end was free. The only thing I could find that it might connect to was a plastic nipple in the engine housing base that didn't do anything but hold the end of the tube . . . the nipple was solid, and provided no sort of air or gas flow.
Anyway, after reassembly, the engine ran fine, through all RPM ranges. We decided to turn back around and continue our trip to Boothbay, and had no other incidents down and back.
Sooo . . . what exactly did I fix? I did 3 things; emptied the fuel filter, cleaned some mysterious plastic tubes, and reconnected a mysterious rubber tube to a nipple that did nothing other than plug the end of it.
One or more of those things seems to have solved the problem . . . anyone have an idea as to which one?
Honda 50 Problem, and Fix (I think)
-
Jeff Drumm
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:39 am
- Location: 43 54' 03" N 69 59' 47" W 2002 26X "Wasabe"
-
Jeff S
- First Officer
- Posts: 371
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:13 pm
- Location: Cherry Point, NC 2000 26X Tohatsu 50
While at the dock or on the trailer disconnect the rubber tube with the engine running and see what happens- thay may be a vacuum tube and it may need to be plugged- or connected somewhere else. Put your finger over it as the engine is running and see if their is suction on your finger- if there is it is a vacuum tube and is either connected where you had it because it is for an option your engine does not have- or for maintenance purposes, or it is for something you do have (vacuum advance maybe?) and you need to find out where it really does belong.
If disconnecting the rubber tube does nothing to the running of your engine then it may have been the other tubes- but those sound like fuel overflow tubes (don't have a Honda so hard for me to say), which wouldn't do much for your engine running. How did insects get in those if they are connected to the carb and the engine?
The last thing I can think of is that you had some water in your fuel and dumping out the filter got rid of it, maybe it had condensed in there.
The only thing I would worry about for future trips is where the rubber hose connects- I am sure there is someone here with a Honda engine that would be nice enough to look at his and tell you where it connects...
If disconnecting the rubber tube does nothing to the running of your engine then it may have been the other tubes- but those sound like fuel overflow tubes (don't have a Honda so hard for me to say), which wouldn't do much for your engine running. How did insects get in those if they are connected to the carb and the engine?
The last thing I can think of is that you had some water in your fuel and dumping out the filter got rid of it, maybe it had condensed in there.
The only thing I would worry about for future trips is where the rubber hose connects- I am sure there is someone here with a Honda engine that would be nice enough to look at his and tell you where it connects...
-
kmclemore
- Site Admin
- Posts: 6297
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 9:24 am
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Ambler, PA -- MACX2018A898 w/ Suzuki DF60AV -- 78 BW Harpoon 4.6 -- 2018 Tahoe 550TF w/ 150 Merc
I have a Tohatsu 50, but a similar problem with bugs... I had "mud-daubers" (at least that's what we've always called bugs that make nests out of mud) that had burrowed into my water outlet (the small hose that you're supposed to watch to ensure the engine's getting cooling water). They had so completely blocked it that I couldn't see any water at all coming out.. had to use a bit of wire and carefully ream out the hose.. then flushed it with fresh water. Works fine now. (darned pesky bugs!)
-
Jeff Drumm
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:39 am
- Location: 43 54' 03" N 69 59' 47" W 2002 26X "Wasabe"
Well, I cruised down to Sheepscot Bay under power this morning, had a great couple of hours tacking back and forth across the bay, then cruised back up to the Kennebec again. The engine ran beautifully.
Re: the black rubber tube . . . there just isn't anything else for it to connect to, but it was obviously connected to something because the end of the tube had a slight bulge in it. It also naturally curved to the location of the nipple, so I suspect it's a vacuum tube for some feature I don't have as pointed out by Jeff S.
Re: the black rubber tube . . . there just isn't anything else for it to connect to, but it was obviously connected to something because the end of the tube had a slight bulge in it. It also naturally curved to the location of the nipple, so I suspect it's a vacuum tube for some feature I don't have as pointed out by Jeff S.
-
Don T
- Admiral
- Posts: 1084
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 7:13 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: 95 2600 "SS OTTER" - Portland OR - Tohatsu 50 - Hull#64 (May 95)
Hello:
Lets try the process of elimination. The only tubes that should be present are:
1. Fuel supply to each carb coming from the fuel pump, fed by the fuel hose fitting through the filter and the oil intermix chamber.
2. Vacuum supply to the fuel pump. The lower crankcase pressure/vacuum is what pumps the diaphragm. Pump could be mounted directly to the crankcase eliminating the hose.
3. Oil pump (if equipped with oil injection) to fuel intermix chamber and crankcase passage(s) to internal bearings. Fed from the oil tank through the filter.
4. Water bypass (pee hole)
To my recollection timing is mechanical by way of the throttle cable.
Maybe you can follow the hose to determine its function.
Lets try the process of elimination. The only tubes that should be present are:
1. Fuel supply to each carb coming from the fuel pump, fed by the fuel hose fitting through the filter and the oil intermix chamber.
2. Vacuum supply to the fuel pump. The lower crankcase pressure/vacuum is what pumps the diaphragm. Pump could be mounted directly to the crankcase eliminating the hose.
3. Oil pump (if equipped with oil injection) to fuel intermix chamber and crankcase passage(s) to internal bearings. Fed from the oil tank through the filter.
4. Water bypass (pee hole)
To my recollection timing is mechanical by way of the throttle cable.
Maybe you can follow the hose to determine its function.
-
Jeff Drumm
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:39 am
- Location: 43 54' 03" N 69 59' 47" W 2002 26X "Wasabe"
Yes, those were present, but were not the tubes I worked with.Don T wrote:Hello:
Lets try the process of elimination. The only tubes that should be present are:
1. Fuel supply to each carb coming from the fuel pump, fed by the fuel hose fitting through the filter and the oil intermix chamber.
Which was probably the case, as I didn't see any tube like this.2. Vacuum supply to the fuel pump. The lower crankcase pressure/vacuum is what pumps the diaphragm. Pump could be mounted directly to the crankcase eliminating the hose.
Nope, the BF50's a 4 stroke.3. Oil pump (if equipped with oil injection) to fuel intermix chamber and crankcase passage(s) to internal bearings. Fed from the oil tank through the filter.
The water bypass line was not visible with the engine cover off.4. Water bypass (pee hole)
Well, that's pretty much what I tried to do . . . one end of each of the 2 clogged clear plastic tubes connected to nipples located on or near the lowest of the 3 carbs, and the other ends vented to the outside through holes formed in the base of the engine housing. I'll have to refresh my memory of where the black rubber hose connected when I get to the boat this morning (alas, gotta haul her home today). Maybe I'll take a picture and post it . . .To my recollection timing is mechanical by way of the throttle cable.
Maybe you can follow the hose to determine its function.
-
Jeff Drumm
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:39 am
- Location: 43 54' 03" N 69 59' 47" W 2002 26X "Wasabe"
OK, the black rubber hose was in fact the water bypass line; I verified it when I got home. I originally thought that the nipple was solid; apparently it wasn't (sunlight was pretty bright when I first looked at it, the nipple was in shadow).
So that eliminates 1 of the three things I did.
I tried blocking the two clear tubes while the engine was running (had to purge the salt from it anyway), and couldn't get it to change in RPMs or timbre. I didn't hold them closed for more than 30 seconds, though; it may take longer than that for any effect.
So the most likely culprit is now the fuel filter. It sure didn't look like it had anything but gas in it . . .
So that eliminates 1 of the three things I did.
I tried blocking the two clear tubes while the engine was running (had to purge the salt from it anyway), and couldn't get it to change in RPMs or timbre. I didn't hold them closed for more than 30 seconds, though; it may take longer than that for any effect.
So the most likely culprit is now the fuel filter. It sure didn't look like it had anything but gas in it . . .
-
Jeff Drumm
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:39 am
- Location: 43 54' 03" N 69 59' 47" W 2002 26X "Wasabe"
Yeah, that's one thing I left out . . . I did switch from one tank to the other when I started having problems. However, I would've thought that I'd run the engine enough to get any "bad" fuel out of the system before I dropped anchor to look at things. I used up most of the fuel in the 2nd tank, and switched back to the original to refill the 2nd. The following day (yesterday), I burned the rest of the original (suspect) tank without incident.Jeff S wrote:One more possibility is that you simply had some bad gas that is now out of the system.
Anyhoo, the boat's out of the water now, scrubbed and flushed and ready for next weekend (assuming the weather cooperates
)-
Alan Huggins
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:29 pm
- Location: Fairhope, AL
Jeff,
The same thing has happenned to me twice. And I'll bet I've got your answer. Actually, I wrote a lengthy explanation of your whole episode last night and as I went to submit it, I screwed up somehow and erased the whole thing. I was so mad at wasting an hour ( I'm a slow typist) I went to bed disgusted. Anyway, I'll condense it this time.
The two clear tubes connect to the middle and bottom carbs. Unclogging them did not fix your problem. They are only used when you back out a screw to drain fuel from the bowls on the carbs. They simply keep the gas from dribbling all over the engine.
The problem was caused by the clogged up plastic emitter nozzle that the black tube attatches to. This tube is part of the water pump indicator. You know, the little pee stream that sprays out of the engine that lets you know the water pump is working. The emitter nozzle was clogged up which forced the tube to become undone. At high RPMs, the water sprays out of the tube way faster than it was able to drain out. With the engine cover on, the water actually fills up inside this cover/cowling area until it reaches the level of the air intake for the carbs. The engine started running bad because at the very least you were starving the engine for air and likely even ran water into the bottom carb. This is what happened with mine. I had to drain the carb bowls.
This whole thing happened to me several times, and I finally drilled out the emitter nozzle to a larger diameter and hose-clamped the tube to the nozzle and have not had the problem since. In my case the water was salt water and I didn't clean the engine well enough and later had to deal with corrosion and rust with some of the engine components.
BTW, mine was not mud-daubers, but just trash or sand or both. The discovery of the problem ocurred after several starts and stops. At slow RPM's it doesn't fill up fast enough and runs good. I didn't have anything onboard to unclog the nozzle and when I finally figured out what was happening, I ran home with the engine cover removed. I now keep a paper clip in the tool box.
Hope this helps,
Alan
The same thing has happenned to me twice. And I'll bet I've got your answer. Actually, I wrote a lengthy explanation of your whole episode last night and as I went to submit it, I screwed up somehow and erased the whole thing. I was so mad at wasting an hour ( I'm a slow typist) I went to bed disgusted. Anyway, I'll condense it this time.
The two clear tubes connect to the middle and bottom carbs. Unclogging them did not fix your problem. They are only used when you back out a screw to drain fuel from the bowls on the carbs. They simply keep the gas from dribbling all over the engine.
The problem was caused by the clogged up plastic emitter nozzle that the black tube attatches to. This tube is part of the water pump indicator. You know, the little pee stream that sprays out of the engine that lets you know the water pump is working. The emitter nozzle was clogged up which forced the tube to become undone. At high RPMs, the water sprays out of the tube way faster than it was able to drain out. With the engine cover on, the water actually fills up inside this cover/cowling area until it reaches the level of the air intake for the carbs. The engine started running bad because at the very least you were starving the engine for air and likely even ran water into the bottom carb. This is what happened with mine. I had to drain the carb bowls.
This whole thing happened to me several times, and I finally drilled out the emitter nozzle to a larger diameter and hose-clamped the tube to the nozzle and have not had the problem since. In my case the water was salt water and I didn't clean the engine well enough and later had to deal with corrosion and rust with some of the engine components.
BTW, mine was not mud-daubers, but just trash or sand or both. The discovery of the problem ocurred after several starts and stops. At slow RPM's it doesn't fill up fast enough and runs good. I didn't have anything onboard to unclog the nozzle and when I finally figured out what was happening, I ran home with the engine cover removed. I now keep a paper clip in the tool box.
Hope this helps,
Alan
-
Jeff Drumm
- Chief Steward
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:39 am
- Location: 43 54' 03" N 69 59' 47" W 2002 26X "Wasabe"
Alan, that all sounds logical, but one of the first things I look for when the engine even barely hiccups is that it's peeing properly, and it was peeing like the proverbial racehorse throughout the entire series of events.
I suspect that the emitter tube got knocked off when I was anchored and futzing around with the drain tubes, and I didn't notice. There was no water inside the engine housing anywhere (and there would've been, since I removed the engine cover within minutes of the rough running episode). After I looked at the engine and before I restarted it, I had reconnected the emitter tube to its nipple on the housing.
So it's still looking like a fuel filter problem . . .
I suspect that the emitter tube got knocked off when I was anchored and futzing around with the drain tubes, and I didn't notice. There was no water inside the engine housing anywhere (and there would've been, since I removed the engine cover within minutes of the rough running episode). After I looked at the engine and before I restarted it, I had reconnected the emitter tube to its nipple on the housing.
So it's still looking like a fuel filter problem . . .