Surge brakes and going downhill

[opie]

I just read many of the 152 postings on surge brakes and a bunch of posts on other boards. It seems that surge brakes tend to engage when going down a long mountain incline, with bad results of overheating. Some suggest wiring a kill switch in the car that the drive can use to disengage (or engage?) the solenoid for the surge brakes while going downhill. Others said it was a mistake to do that, the brakes would not re-activate easily. I just want to be safe and at the same time not ruin my brakes. I normally drive on the piedmont (level) area of NC, but will try some mountain trips next summer. Could driving slowly (45) downhill ease the possible pain? Any personal stories about downhill surge brakes issues?
thanks.

[Paul S]

never had a problem. If a hill is insanely steep and you run into it. There is a lockout key for the trailer (at least for the M) that you can put in the tounge to disengage the brakes.

With both the car/truck and trailer both going about the same speed, I don't see how it could be a problem. You need a pretty good difference in speed for the brakes to engage. I dont think you will get that unless it is a serious steep hill...and I think I would want the extra braking of the trailer !

Brake pads are cheap. If it is a loooong incline and they ARE over heating. Then stop and let them cool. I wouldnt want to trailer down a mountain incline without brakes.

[K9Kampers]

You ask about surge brakes, then describe a controller for electric brakes. Surge brakes work off a hydraulic actuator activated by deceleration force. Electric brakes / controller is something different. Please clarify?

[c130king]

There is a lockout key for the trailer (at least for the M) that you can put in the tounge to disengage the brakes.

Paul,

I am not familiar with this "lockout key". Can you describe? Anyone have a picture?

Thanks,
Jim

[Hamin' X]

It would be a fairly simple matter to run a switched hot line to the solenoid pin of the trailer wiring connector. A diode should be placed in the line that comes from the backup lamps, to prevent interaction. As to why it might be needed? The compression from the engine of the tow vehicle is slowing the entire combination and forcing the trailer to push on the actuator.

~Rich

[kadet]

You ask about surge brakes, then describe a controller for electric brakes. Surge brakes work off a hydraulic actuator activated by deceleration force. Electric brakes / controller is something different. Please clarify?

K9 the Mac and a lot of other hydraulic braked trailers have a lockout solenoid that pins the piston or opens a bypass valve. It runs off the reversing lamp circuit so you can back the trailer up without engaging the brakes.

http://www.championtrailers.com/REVERSI ... VALVES.HTM

[K9Kampers]

I was not aware of this. My trailer doesn't have the solenoid. Thanks for posting the link.

[pokerrick1]

Opie - - - yours is a very fair question. Paul S. is right - - - brake pads are cheap - - - I, also, don't think you want to go down a steep grade without brakes.

For the record, my dealer didn't tell me what the lockout key was until I took it to him and asked? I found it in the long box that I didn't know what half the stuff inside was??? One would never know what it was for until they asked - -- It is not mentioned anywhere in the manual???

Rick Less

[pokerrick1]

It would be a fairly simple matter to run a switched hot line to the solenoid pin of the trailer wiring connector. A diode should be placed in the line that comes from the backup lamps, to prevent interaction. As to why it might be needed? The compression from the engine of the tow vehicle is slowing the entire combination and forcing the trailer to push on the actuator.

I'm sorry; I'm neither an engineer nor a mechanic, so I didn't understand much of the above

Rick Less

[Chinook]

I learned the hard way about driving steep roads while towing our X. My tow vehicle is a Chev 3/4 ton duramax diesel, so I've got plenty of tow power coupled with a heavy duty tow rig. I figured I could go anywhere, so saw a nicely located route into Jackson Hole, over Teton Pass. No problem driving up to the top, but the way down was 10 miles of 9 percent downgrade, with lots of tight turns. I had to go slow and never gave the surge brakes a thought. By time I got to the bottom I'd blown grease all over the place, and burned up a good set of disc brakes. First lesson learned here is that I shouldn't really try to drive just anywhere with the boat in tow, even if I have the power to go up. It's a lot better to plan the route and avoid long, steep, slow downgrades. That said, I could have disconnected the backup wire. I have also drilled a hole in the coupler which allows me to slide a bolt through it, thereby preventing the coupler from sliding and engaging the surge brake. I suspect the locking pin referenced above for M trailers does the same thing. I haven't gotten into a situation where I felt the need to disable the surge brakes for a long downgrade, since my first mishap, but I do think about it now, before things heat up too badly.

[Hamin' X]

It would be a fairly simple matter to run a switched hot line to the solenoid pin of the trailer wiring connector. A diode should be placed in the line that comes from the backup lamps, to prevent interaction. As to why it might be needed? The compression from the engine of the tow vehicle is slowing the entire combination and forcing the trailer to push on the actuator.

I'm sorry; I'm neither an engineer nor a mechanic, so I didn't understand much of the above

Rick Less

It would simulate the backup lights that lock out the surge brakes when you go into reverse, but without having to place the transmission in reverse, or having the backup lights come on.

~Rich

[bscott]

It is illegal to tow a trailer on Teton Pass in the winter.
I have alot of experience trailering my over very steep Colorado passes and have adjusted my actuator to reduce the amount of breaking during a surge. I also found that 35 mph using engine breaking is a good safe speed. If you intend to do alot of mountain driving a tandem axle with brakes all around is worth the money.

Bob

[Paul S]

There is a lockout key for the trailer (at least for the M) that you can put in the tounge to disengage the brakes.

Paul,

I am not familiar with this "lockout key". Can you describe? Anyone have a picture?

Thanks,
Jim

see http://www.ufpnet.com/Portals/0/PDFs/A- ... enance.pdf

page 10 (pdf page 12)

[Chinook]

Never said anything about winter trailering on Teton Pass. That incident occurred in July, 2003. Trailer had tandem axle and brakes on 2 wheels. If I'd had 4 brakes, I might have burned all 4 up, but who knows. I don't think I'd be able to take the corners on Teton Pass at 35 mph. I also won't be going over it with the boat again.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Couple of notes on this

- You have to do more than disconnect the solenoid wire. The solenoids resting state (0 Volts) is open (brake pressure allowed), and when you turn the reverse lights on and apply 12 VDC to it, it CLOSES and prevents brake pressure from reaching the brakes.

Disconnecting the wire wont disconnect the brakes, it will leave the solenoid open and brakes on.

- I wonder if any of you who have had trouble on downgrades possibly still have the residual pressure valve in the master cylinder? If you convert to disks, you have to remove this - pretty well described on the Champion website.

Those of you with factory disks need not worry about this.

Lucky for me the biggest downgrade I face is a relatively puny one in the Berkshires (I think its the Blandfords technically) - <2000 feet and 6% grade.