Getting started - sluggish steering

[BalmainBug]

Hi Guys,

We (me and the scullery maid) are both new to the Macgregor 26M and sailing itself. We have had the boat for a couple of months and are gingerly working up our experience. This has mostly been motoring around Sydney Harbour but it's time to bite the bullet and start working those sails.

To get started, we took ourselves into a large space with little traffic and started with the main only. It wasn't a very windy day - good, with our experience - but I had real trouble with the steering. On either tack, I found I couldn't steer into the wind at the very end of the rudder's travel. Then, last night, we did the same thing with just the jib. Same deal - not much by way of wind - but this was even worse. I would like to think that this would be a lot better with more wind and both sails but there was so little response, I can't help but think that I'm doing something wrong or the boat is not set up right. Down wind, btw, wasn't a problem at all.

As far as equipment is concerned, the centreboard doesn't seem to drop down very far. When I lower it, the line goes down by about 4ft. With the pully, this roughly translates to a centreboard drop of about 2ft which seems very little indeed - and not what is suggested on the specs.

Can anybody tell me whether it is worth having a very good look at the centreboard or, if this is unlikely to be the problem, any other suggestion that might help?

TIA

Steve

[curtis from carlsbad]

I'm a rookie too .One thing for sure.That centerboard must be all the way down
when tacking.Also it won't want to go upwind without both sails working harmoniously together.Main should a little off the centerline when tacking. I had forgotten to do this recently and when I brought the main in closer to centerline my speed increased 1.5 mph.Main should be farther out when reaching or downwind.When I pulled out full genny as opposed to 75 % speed increased about 0.5 mph.Both sails are needed to tack.The centerboard not being fully dropped is a big problem for tacking also.On your next sail you will see , I promise. Curtis

[Hardcrab]

BalmainBug,
A couple of things.
These boats need around 1.75 - 2 knots of boat speed (assuming zero current or wave effects) in order to have enough kinetic energy to make it tack through the wind without fail.
Of course, if you don't have good sail trim to begin with, all bets are off.
If you don't know for sure what constitutes "good" sail trim, there is plenty of stuff on the web to read up on.

In my experience, the boat will tack with either sail alone, but the foresail alone will need a higher speed than the main alone.

As far as the dagger board, the pulley is only one to one with no mech advantage.
A four foot drop for the line will equal a four foot drop for the board.
The board usually drops about five feet.
Take a good look down the trunk from above. There is an extra safety line tied off from the top of the board to the pulley assembly.
See if the board drops down far enough to get that line mostly straight.
If so, then the board is fully extended.
If not, the board is hanging up in the trunk somehow (not likely), or the control line and/or safetyline has the stopknot tied in the wrong place.
Or simply take a tape measure reading from the top of the lowered board to the top of the trunk opening and get back to us.

Good luck and hang in there; you'll get it.

[BalmainBug]

Hi Guys,

OK, thanks for that. The first thing I will look at is the centreboard - with special ref to Hardcrab's tips. I'll get back when I've had a look.

Cheers

[violaman]

The top of dagger board needs to be 57 in. down from top of the cabin, fully lowered.

[c130king]

My DB control line has a knot and a washer that hits a pulley/block to keep the DB from going down "too far". My understanding is that this is done by the factory. So if you have one of these knots/washers is it hitting the block? If so then the DB is all the way down.

Also my understanding is that the depth of the fully lowered DB is 5' 9". The depth of the hull with the DB up is probably between 12-18" thus the DB only drops about 4' or maybe a few inches more.

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong on this.

And as to the steering issues. Not quite sure I understand the issue as you describe it but I agree with the statement that the boat will not tack very well at low speeds. It will pretty much stall/stop turning once you are pointed into the wind. As you start your tack and the boat starts pointing higher into the wind haul in on the main sheet to keep the main pulling efficiently. Start the turn relatively slowly to keep from stalling the rudder and then about the time the main starts to luff turn the wheel hard over to get max effect from the rudder while you still have some speed on...this will help the bow have enough momentum to get through the wind.

However, the boat tacks just fine with only partial DB down...if you have enough speed. I sail with partial DB down all the time.

Good Luck,
Jim

[Russ]

All good advice above. Make sure your dagger is fully down.

The Mac isn't the best performing sailboat, so it takes some speed (2 knots) of water over the rudders to have decent steering during tacking.
Also, unlike other sailboats I've sailed, it seems to require both sails powered to have good control.

What I've tried to do with the Mac is right before tacking, I head downwind a bit to pick up some more speed, then crank the wheel fast and hard to tack. You can't be slow about it, especially in low winds. Sometimes allowing the jib to backwind will help pull the boat through the tack.

Just like getting how you get to Carnegie Hall, it takes practice.


--Russ

[Highlander]

Pointing high full D/B down , down wind no D/B required , in rough following sea's with large swells about 1ft of D/B other than that I sail with 1/3 to 1/4 of the D/B down for all other points of sail more or less depending depending on wave action & wind you may have to ajust as you go if you over steer at the beginning of your tack you will stall the boat more so in very light winds , if trying to point high against tide & big waves & high wind sometimes you may have to powersail to make the tack as the boat lacks the weight to punch through the waves more so if your in tight space like a narrow chanell or river or shallow waters
With a 20" wheel & Ida Sailor rudders my boat is very sensitive to the touch of the wheel when I have crew at the helm it takes them a while to adjust & not continuously over steer the boat !! so I have to keep telling them your over steering ! & I get that dirty look Who Me ! their just used to sailing heavier boats , crew who have sailed dinghy's seem to adjust very fast !
But then again my boat is a different beast all together !

J

[waternwaves]

stalling the rudders is a big problem in the mac.

low speed, small steering inputs
full sail, boat heeling, moderate steering inputs.

The only time you need full lock to lock steering is docking this boat with motor engaged.

[bubba]

One word 'Impatience' You didn't pay $400,000.00 for a Mac , why would it handle like it cost that mutch ?

[BalmainBug]

Hi Guys,

OK, I've moved on a little.

- The centreboard safety line occasionally finds its way down the side of the centreboard and adds a bit of friction. Once I check this and free it, I get a satisfying cluck as it hits bottom (nothing too violent, mind). It's just something I have to check.
- As for turning, it's the light wind that's not helping. I think that, when there is not enough inertia to pust the bow through the wind, the bow itself begins to act like a sail and drop the boat into a dead zone. Lesson; if there isn't enough wind, use the motor.
- I do, however, note the comments about not over-steering - and possibly stalling the rudders. I may still be overdoing this so I'll check myself on the next outing.

Sunday, despite a tsunami warning, was our first proper sail in Sydney's middle harbour. Having spent a while in very quiet waters getting the hang of the mechanics of the boat, we were ready to go out under the bridge and risk all the traffic. Once we got the boat on to a steady course with plently of room we started to apply sail trimming theory and it all worked out well.

Thanks for all your tips.

Steve