Substitude for Floating Material

[2BonC]

Often if something at the hull has to be modified the original floating material has to be removed. To get the foam blocks out sometimes they have to be disturbed .
In the future I´m going to replace the solid foam blocks by foam shock protectors as used for packaging (see pic).

I plan to put them into rugged plastic bags and close them with cable straps. Might be it´s a good idea to exchange all foam blocks by that. As the chape of the bags will be flexible more volume of the hull can be filled by this.
How do You think about this, will it work?

rainer

[nedmiller]

In order to be useful, the foam material you substitute must not be able to escape the area where you place it--or it will pop out and float on the surface and the Mac will sink. The replacement material also has to displace the same amount of water as the original--are the foam pieces you are using 'coiled' so that they take up more space but water will, in fact, find it's way into the big pockets of air created by the coil/fold? if so, then. IMHO, they will not provide the same amount of displacement.
SILK

[Nautek]

What about the styrene beads from bean bags??
They would need to be in good plastic bags though
They would pack down better

Allan

[Love MACs]

I think if the solid material you remove is too torn up to put back in and you can't find/buy like solid foam to use as replacement..then your idea is better than nothing. But I would be real careful about replacing too much solid foam with any kind of bead material. I really don't think your displacement would be near the same as solid. And as mentioned should they become free floating (bag tears, mouse eats thru it) then they would be of no help IMHO.


Allan

[2BonC]

--or it will pop out and float on the surface and the Mac will sink.

this will give an exelent trace for the rescue

[MadMacX]

Be very careful when using packing material. Most packing material is now bio-degradable and will, over time, decompose. I would think that in a marine environment packing material would decompose very quickly.

Pat

[restless]

off the top of my head circles packed together leave 25% free space. I'm not sure on how that would integrate to spheric volumes.. but it's not going to get any better.
However I think using them where there are factory left gaps is a top idea.. there's loads of airgaps round the cockpit and other odd spaces that would be hard to get solid bits into. I'm collecting odd shapes to see what extra I can stuff in whenever I put new holes in the boat, and there is a fair amount that can be done! Just make sure all my cables are routed through first!

[seahouse]

What MadMacX said...

Be very careful when using packing material. Most packing material is now bio-degradable and will, over time, decompose. I would think that in a marine environment packing material would decompose very quickly.

Actually, maybe no one's noticed, or encountered them yet, but some of these "packing peanuts" will dissolve almost instantly in water. Just put a few in water and test them first. If it's this type they will turn to mush in seconds.

Some other types might take longer, so you might want to test those for a few days in a glass of water to see how mcuh water they absorb.

[seahouse]

I like the overall philosophy of this idea . I just looked at the picture - there are at least two different types of peanuts there.

I would flame-test anything being used on a boat with a match or candle. If it goes out when you take the flame away it's likely safe. If it continues to burn on its own I'd stay away from it, especialy if it'll be anywhere near electrical wiring. I would assume that the corn-starch type would be flame-safe, but of course inappropriate for this application.

I used this test when deciding what materials should supplement the insulation in the attic of my house, and ended up eliminating the majority of materials not specifically manufactured for that purpose. In fact, I found that some foam packing sheets would make great ( ie. scary-fast) fuses if cut into strips.

I don't have a sailboat yet, but I've been keeping (no I am not a "hoarder" ) large-mouth screw-lid jars (such as the large clear jars you get pretzels in) to possibly replace some of the floatation foam. I plan on putting some light, less often used, (ie. spare towels etc) and emergency items in them and sealing them up, giving them double-duty as floatation.

[Hamin' X]

You folks have given me a great idea. I buy and sell expensive and sensitive electronic equipment, as a sideline. Most of this stuff does not have original sipping cartons, so I make my own custom fitting ones. First, place an empty trash bag in the bottom of the box. Next, fill the bag with foam (I use Great Stuff) about 1/4 the volume of the box and seal the bag. Next, lay the instrument on the bag and press down, until the bag comes up about half way. Next, place another empty bag on top, close the box with the end of the bag showing and inject more foam. Perfect packing.

I would think that this method would work for filling those niggly voids of odd shape. Place the bag, fill with foam, let set. It could still be dug out, without sicking to the hull, or liner and would not be subject to water infiltration, or floating out.

Caution: I would only use the closed cell polyurethane, or urethane types of foam and never use the latex type that will compress.

~Rich

[Doug91mac26s]

As I've been doing mods to my 26S, I've been removing the styrofoam as needed to gain access to whatever area I'm working in. Each time I pull out a piece, I end up with little broken pieces all over the place. I do not intend on putting styrofoam back in. I'll use closed cell foam instead. I get closed cell packing material free from work, or wherever I can. If I buy an item that has the closed cell foam in the box, I'll save it. Closed cell foam doesn't break up easily like styrofoam, won't disolve in water over time, and has good floatation characteristics. I'll pack this stuff everywhere and anywhere I can. I plan on getting on sale a bunch of those pool noodles, and push them into hard to reach areas. I'll also put them inside the mast, to make it float should it end up in the water.

A few years ago I heard a story at West Marine, of someone off the coast of Oceanside, CA., who's standing rigging failed. The Coast Gaurd came to assist. I guess the mast was overboard, and possed a danger of putting a hole in the hull, so the first thing they did was cut loose all the remaining rigging, the mast and all the rest went to the bottom. Sure would've been nice if the mast could float.

[DaveB]

Don't waste your time and money! Even closed cell foam will absorb water in time.
Spend your money in a raft or other items that will save your life.
Don't depend on the flotation in a Mac. when your boat is equiped with engine,batteries,anchors and all the gear you put aboard ,you will be more than 1000 lbs over the tests sites Rodger has done in Vidio.
Dave

Often if something at the hull has to be modified the original floating material has to be removed. To get the foam blocks out sometimes they have to be disturbed .
In the future I´m going to replace the solid foam blocks by foam shock protectors as used for packaging (see pic).

I plan to put them into rugged plastic bags and close them with cable straps. Might be it´s a good idea to exchange all foam blocks by that. As the chape of the bags will be flexible more volume of the hull can be filled by this.
How do You think about this, will it work?

rainer

[Kelly Hanson East]

A large proportion of 'shipping peanuts' are in fact, corn starch, which will magically dissolve in water...

Glub GLub Glub goes the boat....

[Russ]

A large proportion of 'shipping peanuts' are in fact, corn starch, which will magically dissolve in water...

Glub GLub Glub goes the boat....

I love those corn starch peanuts. They melt in your mouth, not in your hands.

All this talk of flotation..has there been a case where a Mac got holed or capsized and was saved by the flotation?
I know of a few that turned on their side and one drunken idiot who ran with 12 people and no ballast, but has a Mac ever actually used/needed that flotation. The Mac is the first boat I've owned that I didn't fully expect it to sink to the bottom if I put a big hole in it.



--Russ