How does one run a successful business when they...???

[trapeze]

I have both emailed as well as called macgregorparts.com three times each over the last week, wanting to purchase a new Jib. I have received no answer at all??? I am simply asking to verify availability. Has anybody done business with David Field? How does one run a successful business wen they make it difficult to hand out my money?

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Hi. If you pick "Search" from the options above this window and then type in "macgregorparts", you will find loads of information about how incompetent that dealer is. There are plenty of good Mac dealers including some that frequent this site.

[jsserene]

Check with Bill at Boats4Sail
He has the best prices for factory sails. He is also a regular of this board.

[Chip Hindes]

How does one run a successful business wen they make it difficult to hand out my money?

They don't. There's zero indication that this is in fact a successful business; or even that's it's a business at all. If macgregorparts.com isn't already defunct, they soon will be.

It's unfortunate. This is all that's left of the parts business portion of the original Havencraft, a Mac only dealer, from whom I bought my boat. They had the best catalog and the largest selection of Mac parts in stock and ready to go, and were always pleasent, competent and a joy to do business with.

When they sold and split the business, I wondered whether it would be possible to sustain a Mac-only parts business without the synergistic effect of new boat sales, and vice versa.

It appears the answer to the first part of the question is no.

Has anyone bought a new boat from Havencraft?

[Jeff S]

Chip,

I bought a used boat through Havencraft- they acted as broker for the transaction. It went well. I don't know if they sell new boats now.

Jeff S

[Chip Hindes]

I checked the website and they're advertizing Ms exclusively, promising they're now delivering 2005s, so they're ostensbly still in the Mac business.

I wasn't going to mention it, but since you brought it up, my officemate was looking at a '99 X Havencraft had in brokerage, put down a deposit based on pictures and descriptions on the website, and went down to their RI site, (180 miles, 3+ hours from here) to pick up has "new" boat only last Thursday. It was described to him over the phone by Havencraft as a "nice boat".

When he saw the boat in person, it was mess, by his description it appears it was little short of a derelict, dirty, stuff broken, stress cracks throughout on the gelcoat, batteries dead so the motor couldn't be cranked, trailer badly rusted out, with two flat tires and the lights broken and held on with zip ties. He decided not to even bother looking inside the cabin, and to pass. He's a nice guy and didn't get too worked up about it, but it seems to me this boat was badly misrepresented. Now in fairness, I believe the description and pictures were provided by the boat's owner who is apparently now in CA, but it seems to me Havencraft as the broker and owner's representative is at least partly responsible. If nothing else, they knew he was coming to pick up the boat and did nothing to prepare it.

One more thing; Paul (he of the now legendary poorly prepared M) has been careful never to mention the name of the dealer who seems to have done such a pi$$ poor job of preparing his new boat(s). I assume it was because he still had to work with them to make things right. I've been thinking all along based on Paul's Boston location that it must have been Havencraft.

How about it Paul, care to comment?

[Paul S]

Yes, our dealer is havencraft. The owner is a great guy. Too bad his new rigger (our boat was his first i think) didn't have a clue. He is still using the same rigger, but hope now he has the kinks worked out.

Havencraft is only into selling boats. No service/parts. Does not take trades that I know of.

He has a guy in the RI area that will show the boat and give demos.

Not sure on his used boats. But I would suspect that havencraft doesnt do anything to them. I would also assume they show it as the owner left it. I am selling a used powerboat now, and the selling dealer has done nothing to my boat.

Paul

[Chip Hindes]

Sounds pretty shaky as a business model. I know they can't sell parts as that's the agreement they had with macgregorparts.com; I questioned (at least to myself) at the time whether that was a wise thing to do. But if they don't do service or repairs either, who do you go to when you have a warranty question? They're obviously not knowledgeable about Macs. The question then becomes, what made you decide to buy a boat from them in the first place?

These questions aren't necessarily directed at you personally; I'm just "wondering out loud", so to speak. 'Course if you want to, feel free to contribute.

I wonder what exactly is was they purchased from Havencraft when they bought the business, other than the name. They didn't keep the same location or showroom, they didn't get the parts inventory, even the website URL was down for six or eight months. Whatever existing clientelle the original Havencraft had built up was pretty much gone as soon as they decided to relocate. They apparently trashed the knolwledgable installation people who were at Havencraft at the same time. Any remaining good will in particular was squandered during the time they had no boats to sell and they had to keep telling people it wasn't their fault that macgregorparts.com was screwing people. Finally, any small amount remaining was totally squandered about the time they delivered their first boat to you.

I'm unfamiliar with how the broker thing works. If it means the broker has no responsibility for the condition of the boat, then I guess there's no incentive for them to knock themselves out to get it ready for delivery. But even though they're working for the seller, you would think at the very least they would want to represent the boat accurately. My officemate could care less about what a jerk the owner was. He'll never have the need to deal with him again. On the other hand, the broker's actions left a bad taste; if anybody else asks him, he'll have to tell them the broker was a jerk as well; if he's ever in the market for another boat, he'll go elsewhere. For the broker, it's lose-lose. No sale, no commission, and now they've lost a present and possible future customer.

Am I missing something or is this an incompetent way to try to run a business?

[trapeze]

I have emailed back and forth to Bill at Boats4Sail, and he seems to have a good business. I will order a Jib from him this week.

Thanks for your tip. Meanwhile I will continue to lurk and listen to this discussion.

Trapeze

[Jeff S]

The boat I bought through Havencraft was more like a consignment sale facilitated through them. The info on the boat and such was from the owner. I got a decent one. I too put a deposit down and the final deal was based on my final inspection. I had some trouble with the title work afterwards (due to differences in NC rules) and had to get some extra things done- Otho at Havencraft was helpful getting that done.

I can't speak to their new boats or rigging, or any other used boats.

Jeff S.

[NYharleyrider]

Hi Guys...

While I'm new to this board (I've been around here for about a month now) and new to owning an 05 26M (which will be delivered to me in April 05) I would like to share my opinion about Otho from Havencraft.

First let me tell you what I don't know... I dont know the history about macgregorparts.com and Havencraft other than what I've read from Havencraft's web site.

What I do know is that Otho is one hull of a guy who cares about his customers and has gone WAY out of his way to help me with the purchase of my new boat and the selection of the various options available.

I think it's important to point out that that I'm not an easy customer to deal with when it comes to the negotiation of large purchases. But through it all Otho was very professional and most accommodating. Obviously, in the end we came to a happy conclusion and I'm looking forward to the day he delivers my new boat.

I'm standing up for the man because I have dealt with Otho personally and would feel comfortable in recommending him to anyone who's interested in purchasing a new M. And for what it's worth, I have noticed additional postings on this board from others who spoke highly of Otho too.

The common running theme would be of Otho's helpfulness.

This of course is just my opinion about one person and one transaction and while it's regrettable that Macgregorparts.com's reputation has eroded to its current level of disappointment I think it's important to point out that Havencraft is no longer a part of that operation and should be recognized as such.

I wish Otho well and you couldnt find a nicer guy to do business with.

Brian.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Well, after reading that thread...I'm quite confused about whether the 'new' Havencraft is a good boat dealer or not.

As far as businesses go, some people buy them just so that they can "harvest" whatever momentum is already there. They don't sow anything new and just try to ride the wave as long as it lasts.

[Paul S]

I agree...you can not get a better guy than Otho. Second to none.

But I wish he had better people working for him. His rigger is not the best IMO. My boat is the poster child for that! I hope he is getting better.

I know he is doing well with selling boats and the Mac timeshare business.

I just wish he had a brick+mortor building like Art had. Some place with service. His business is really just a mail order boat company. Since there is no service or parts. Maybe this is normal. Just not what I am used to.

Paul

[Glenn C.]

These Mac dealers are the strangest group I've ever seen. Some ok, some bad. I bought my 99 (new) from a dealer who has been in business for 31 years now. He runs it out of his barn out in the country. I had to prep the boat myself when it came in (fiberglass dust, styrofoam, unpack all the componets, etc.) He didn't even tell me how to set it up. I don't know how they stay in business. Especially with the M. I see alot of Xs, but haven't seen an M.

Glenn,
Sea Dreams
99X

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

You would think that the manufacturer (Roger MacGregor) would want to insure some better uniformity of quality at his dealerships. This is usually the model for other similar type products.