Bottom paint suggestions/opinions

[Russ]

Okay, so after 3 seasons of a bare bottom, I think I'm going to break down and paint her. The slime build up and scrubbing is too much of a hassle. She looks really nice with her white bottom for part of the season, but I fear it's time to cover up and keep the slime off.

So:

I'm looking for suggestions/opinions for a fresh water slime proofing bottom paint. Brand/product? What works well on our trailer boats without getting scraped off each launch? What has worked well for you keeping slime away?

Also, what kind of prep do you suggest? I really don't want to barrier coat if not necessary.

[snotnosetommy]

You'll get a ton of opinions on this topic, and mine's no better than the rest, but VC-17 (copper) has worked very well for me in fresh water. I'm happy with it.
Negatives;
It's supposed to be renewed every year, tho not everyone does. Doesn't take much time, and cure time is like 20 minutes. One quart does my M25.
Barrier coat is a must for this product. Five to seven coats. Moreover, I think you'll hafta sand the gelcoat first. Barrier coat is a real good thing to prevent blistering, but maybe that's not a problem on the newer boats.
Finally, I've heard talk of banning copper bottom coats eventually. Wouldn't surprise me.
Best o' luck, a clean bottom's a good thing!

[Crikey]

I have a 2010 and I've also wondered whether there had been any improvements to this, over time.
Five to Seven coats - Holy crapola!

I mostly trailer mine, so the two or three week immersions a year, in fresh water, don't present more of a problem than a pressure wash when I get home. You definitely get more speed with a slick hull.

[u12fly]

I had bottom paint on mine, but and it was pretty rough, painted over build up and previous growth. I spent lots of time grinding it off, so that I could spray on a smooth finish. I keep my boat on land, it is never in the water more then a week or so an active bottom paint is not neccesary for me.

[Sumner]

....Also, what kind of prep do you suggest? I really don't want to barrier coat if not necessary.

If you don't have any blisters now then maybe think no barrier coat, but it is easy and costs less than $150 to do, so why not? Other than a couple hours to do it and the money what do you have to loose?

To put on the bottom paint you need to clean the bottom, de-wax it and then sand it. At that point you are also ready to put on 2 coats of barrier coat and then just follow those with the bottom paint. Simple and fast and it is done.

Put on bottom paint and later start seeing blisters and now you have to first remove all of the bottom paint which is harder than what you are faced with now.

On the bottom paint we were happy with what we used so far and it doesn't seem to come off as easy as some of the other ablatives on either you are the bunks. I've never used a different one, so I'm just basing that on what I hear people say about theirs.

You also see a lot of trailered boats on inland waters that use the VC-17 and people are happy with it. If I was only going to have the boat in fresh water I'd look hard at it. I picked what I did because we were going to Florida and I asked around what is popular for those waters. I'd try and see what people are using in your area and if they are happy with it.

Our paint job with products is here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... de-39.html

...and we are using the same system on the Endeavour.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

[Seapup]

If you don't have any blisters now then maybe think no barrier coat, but it is easy and costs less than $150 to do, so why not? Other than a couple hours to do it and the money what do you have to loose?

Put on bottom paint and later start seeing blisters and now you have to first remove all of the bottom paint which is harder than what you are faced with now.

I followed Sumner and used the same seahwk toughstuff epoxy barrier coat he did. The previous owner only had bottom paint applied and getting it all off to do the barrier coat was a nightmare. The painting itself was quick and easy. The toughstuff epoxy is very thick and dries about as quick as you put it on. Its no additional prep and probably only took about 90 minutes to roll on 2 coats. Since I was paying shipping for it I went with sehawk ablative paint also, they have a couple harder paints for trailer boats. You can pick the one you want depending on how much growth you are expecting.

[Doupirate]

I first thought of VC 17 as it is unexpensive and I did not plan sailing in salt water.

I noticed I had to sand prior to applying the antifouling. I had enough sanding having just done the Interprotec that same summer.

So I decided for Micron CSC which is about 150 $ a gallon. At first I put on only one coat, one gallon. At the end of the season I would touch-up the spots where it has peeled off: usually the rear of the boat, where water friction is worst at high speed. No more sanding necessary after the first coat.

This year I plan to leave for a couple months on a cruise at sea. I just added the second coat without having to sand. Ready to go.

[Sumner]

I first thought of VC 17 as it is unexpensive and I did not plan sailing in salt water.

I noticed I had to sand prior to applying the antifouling. I had enough sanding having just done the Interprotec that same summer.

So I decided for Micron CSC which is about 150 $ a gallon. At first I put on only one coat, one gallon. At the end of the season I would touch-up the spots where it has peeled off: usually the rear of the boat, where water friction is worst at high speed. No more sanding necessary after the first coat.

This year I plan to leave for a couple months on a cruise at sea. I just added the second coat without having to sand. Ready to go.

I'm not sure I have all of the facts from your post, but just a word of caution. If you put on a barrier coat there usually is a time window of a day to maybe a week depending on who's product you are using that you should put on the bottom paint. This creates a chemical bond between them.

If you get past that window you might need to either sand and put on more barrier coat or sand and put on the bottom paint. The sanding creates a mechanical bond between the paints. If you don't follow these procedures the paint might flake off. You might also get lucky and it might stay on.

Once the bottom paint is on and in the future you are touching it up then you need to read the instructions for whatever you are using. In fact you need to read the tech sheets of the barrier paint and the bottom paint to make sure you will have the best chance of success.

I chose the Sea Hawk Tuff Stuff as it has a higher build than some of the other barrier coats and thus usually only requires 2 coats vs. 3-4 or more of some of the other barrier paints out there. I believe that it has a shorter time window to apply the bottom paint vs. some of the others. I was able to put on 2 coats of barrier paint and 3 coats of bottom paint in one long day by myself.

The reason for 3 coats of bottom paint was that I put on 2 coats of black, recommended, and one coat of blue over the black. That left me enough paint left over that now any time I see black I know that I wore through and can put on more blue there.

I might be wrong, but you are going to have to clean, degrease (easy) and sand a bottom that is gel-coat before putting on even a bottom paint by itself. Read the instructions , the paint is too expensive to have it flake off . Sanding the gel coat is not that hard or time consuming. You just need to take the gloss off and create a surface the paint will stick to. Here is a picture....



..notice the dull look on the sanded area to the left vs. the right unsanded area.

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

[u12fly]

I'm with Sumner, get use to sanding. The quality of any paint sticking is mostly do to prep of the surface you are applying it to. Paint does not stick to "old" paint. Whenever patching an area, you need to scuff the surface, clean it thoroughly with the recommended prepping agent and spray or roll on {yikes, I try to avoid that } the prescribed stack up of coats.

[Russ]

....Also, what kind of prep do you suggest? I really don't want to barrier coat if not necessary.

If you don't have any blisters now then maybe think no barrier coat, but it is easy and costs less than $150 to do, so why not? Other than a couple hours to do it and the money what do you have to loose?

To put on the bottom paint you need to clean the bottom, de-wax it and then sand it. At that point you are also ready to put on 2 coats of barrier coat and then just follow those with the bottom paint. Simple and fast and it is done.

Sumner, I read your link and what you did does not look simple and fast. However, it is first class I'm sure it is the best way to do it.

I'm torn about painting the bottom. I have some blisters from the first season and by rights, I should fix them before covering them up. But that's a lot of work. Plus, I live where there are no glass shops or boat yards, so it's all up to me.

Part of me says to just put the aurora wax on it again and scrub the bottom a few times a season, but another part says to put a coat of antifoul on her and enjoy the season more. Hmm..

[Sumner]

....Sumner, I read your link and what you did does not look simple and fast. However, it is first class I'm sure it is the best way to do it.

I'm torn about painting the bottom. I have some blisters from the first season and by rights, I should fix them before covering them up. But that's a lot of work. Plus, I live where there are no glass shops or boat yards, so it's all up to me.

Part of me says to just put the aurora wax on it again and scrub the bottom a few times a season, but another part says to put a coat of antifoul on her and enjoy the season more. Hmm..

Well it took me 4 days, so that is pretty fast considering what you end up with and I'm not young anymore. If you have blisters now, please don't cover those up with bottom paint. They aren't that hard to fix. It isn't like you are doing car body work and it is going to be right out in the open. Now is the perfect time to do this. The blisters need to be dried out. You can open them with a small dremel tool. If they aren't draining water or weeping water then you can fix them.

The bottom paint is not waterproof so it will do nothing to limit further blisters to form. Then if you have to fix them you have to remove the bottom paint. We got into this mess on the Endeavour and it is costing us since I'm not there to fix them or to remove the bottom paint. We had to pay for both of those. I will put on the barrier paint and bottom paint when we get back to the boat.

The point I was making was that you can't put bottom paint right on the bottom without the prep work and sanding. At that point putting on the barrier coats only adds a couple hours to the whole deal. Do you or can you get the boat inside someplace? Also body shops could do this work if you didn't want to. You don't need a fiberglass place. Any body shops that would rent you a space for a week?

Good luck and it isn't a fun job, but one that any of us can do,

Sum

b]Our Endeavour 37[/b]

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

[Terry]

Sumner, I read your link and what you did does not look simple and fast. However, it is first class I'm sure it is the best way to do it.

I'm torn about painting the bottom. I have some blisters from the first season and by rights, I should fix them before covering them up. But that's a lot of work. Plus, I live where there are no glass shops or boat yards, so it's all up to me.

Part of me says to just put the aurora wax on it again and scrub the bottom a few times a season, but another part says to put a coat of antifoul on her and enjoy the season more. Hmm..

OK RussMT if you are using the Aurora VS721 bottom wax you know it says right on the bottle that it helps prevent osmossis and in fact any waxed surface will help retard osmossis. Where the danger lies is after de-waxing and sanding to apply the paint you have removed all protection and in fact roughed the gelcoat so that it can be penetrated by water more easily to create blisters. Anti-fouling is not going to stop the water penetration, once you de-wax & sand you are an invitation to further damage. I used to use that VS721 wax and I swear by it, best wax ever, used it for 5 years but I also got tired of hauling and cleaning every six weeks. I used the epoxy, about 4 heavy coats and CSC anti-fouling, a gallon does two coats. Don't risk the barrier coat, just do it and get it over with and you'll have no regrets, better be safe than sorry.

[Sumner]

Just one quick note. You need to first use the....



... wax/grease removal before doing anything. Well that isn't exactly true, wash the bottom the best you can first. If you don't use the wax/grease removal and you have wax on the hull when you sand you will sand it into the sand scratches and that will not be good for the paint bond. It is easy to use. I use paper towels and wipe it on wet with one set of towels and wipe it off with a clean set. Don't let it dry on the hull. You want to take it off while it is still wet as it lifts the wax/grease. You can do the whole bottom in very little time,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

[snotnosetommy]

Fixing blisters isn't really a big deal. After you sand the hull, just mix up some epoxy and squeeze it into the crater. If it's not filled completely when dry, do it again. Then sand 'er flush, ready for barrier coat.
Like Sum said, you really don't want to get blisters after you bottom paint. We spent about 60 hours taking off the PO's bottom paint to get to the blisters!! With 40-grit paper. @#$%&**!! Barrier coat is your friend. Your other best friend is your orbital sander.

Oh BTW, when sanding old bottom paint don't breathe that crap! It's really toxic!!

[Russ]

The first year in the water she had a totally bare bottom. Nothing from factory to fresh water. That's the year I think we got blisters.

Since, I've been using the aurora wax and no more blisters and it does seem to help keep slime away. But slime still builds up.

Okay, so I'm convinced that if I'm going to put bottom paint on, I'd better fill the blisters. I imagine the sanding process will pop most of them.

Sumner, your website has great info on the prep work to dewax. If I do this, it will be with the help of your information and experience. I truly appreciate all the documentation you have done for your mods. It's a great resource. I guess I'll have to send you a donation to keep your site running.

With a lack of a lift, I'll have to rely on the tilt of the trailer tricks mentioned many places here. Of course it's January and I'm only thinking about all this. I don't have a shop or a place to rent so I'll wait for spring thaw.