First Sail, First Question - I believe regarding helm

[Dark and Stormy]

Well, we took the 'Dark and Stormy' out for the first daysail recently (it's been a couple weeks actually, but it's taken me this long to begin to understand and articulate my issues).

I was quite proud of myself after successfully rebuilding the outboard (my first experience with either a 2-stroke, or marine engine)... a 1969 Evinrude long shaft that hadn't been operated in at least five years

I was then quite proud of myself for successfully launching the boat with only the slightest of mishaps. I'll detail this separately.

I was then quite proud of myself for successfully rigging the boat and stepping the mast by myself. This includes a traveler, boom vang, quick reef, backstay adjuster, and boom lift... I'm not totally sure I have the quick-reef right, but that's okay.

I was then quite proud of myself for successfully getting out in the lake, raising the sails, and getting underway... this is where it begins to get uncomfortable.

I realized quickly that I was expending a lot A LOT of effort managing the tiller.
In moderate wind, I was sailing with the tiller hauled over as far as I could hold it, if I relaxed, the boat would heel sharply and turn around 180 degrees.
There was also a LOT of play between the tiller handle and the rudder, leading to what I felt was a lack of fine control over the rudder.
I can think I can take the play out by building some spacers to take up the slack in the tiller mounting hinge, but that won't effect the extreme position of the rudder.

Can any of you shed some light on my issue? I'm heading out again this weekend, and would love to try some different methods.

[SENCMac26x]

I'm asking this because I had to learn the hard way on my old Mac25.

In the rudder there is a hole where you can put a nylon bolt/wooden dowell to lock the rudder in the down position, if nothing is there the rudder can (will) tilt back when it meets resistance making it really ineffective.

On my 25, before I learned about it and started putting a dowell in there, my helm control was horrible. There were time I was fighting to keep it all the way over and still not changing course and if I ever let off, she'd round up in a heart beat.

After making sure the rudder was locked, she got better.

[Dark and Stormy]

I'll have a look for the hardware, but if it's there, I'm sure I didn't use it.

I did tie the line used to raise the rudder in such a way that it was pretty much straight down, but it's possible that it was stretching a bit while underway.

[SENCMac26x]

Yeah at first I did the tie down too, but one time I looked back while I was trying to tack against the the current in our river here and could plainly see the rudder trailing by almost 45 degrees....the rope didn't cut it when you had some resistance.

[Judy B]

Well, we took the 'Dark and Stormy' out for the first daysail recently (it's been a couple weeks actually, but it's taken me this long to begin to understand and articulate my issues).

<<snipped>>

I realized quickly that I was expending a lot A LOT of effort managing the tiller.
In moderate wind, I was sailing with the tiller hauled over as far as I could hold it, if I relaxed, the boat would heel sharply and turn around 180 degrees.

How did the boat handle when you were motoring with sail down? Was the tiller on the cneterline or pulled hard to one side when motoring in a straight line? If the boat steered okay under power, I don't think the difficulty you described was likely to have been caused by the rudder.

Your description suggests to me that the sails were trimmed very wrong for the angle of the wind. Were you sailing across the wind, up wind, or downwind when this happened?

In 5-10 knots of wind do the following: Picking a course 90 degrees to the true wind (a beam reach), and sight on something on shore to hold your course. Ease the jib and main sheet completely, hold the tiller just 5 degrees (a few inches) inches above the centerline (pulling the tiller towards windward). Then trim the mainsail in until the front section along the boom JUST stop flapping. Once you've got the mainsail moving the boat, trim the jib in until the front edge section stops flapping. You may need to trim the mainsail in another inch or two after you trim the mainsail.

DON'T OVER TRIM THE SAILS campared to the angle of the wind. if you trim the sails in too hard for the direction you are sailing, the boat heels, the tiller requires strength, and you have to pull the tiller mover than 5 degrees to hold your course.

Let us know what happens when you do that. That should help a great deal.

Also, what is the angle of your mast compared to the waterline? It may need to be slightly adjusted, but I don't think that would cause the situation you decribed, unless it was WAAAAY off.

Hope this help,
Judy B
Sailmaker

[Catigale]

With a hanging tiller you lose lift, which then quickly means losing control. You probably don't have sails trimmed right asJudy points out, but get that tiller locked down and then you can focus on the sails

I recognise loose tiller on my Harpoons immediately from the force involved.

[Jeremy K]

Just gotta say Judy B's advice on this as well as so many other things is one of the reasons I come to this board: expert, experienced, helpful.
I too have a lotta 'weather helm' on my elderly M25; I do think some of it has been from the rudder, some from the mast rake, and most of it from overtrimming; hard to avoid when it seems like you're either luffing all over the place or overtrimmed
Also I do think the Mac's had some weather helm 'built in' as it were; I've always thought that was sort of a 'safety feature'. Rather have a weather than a lee helm on a pleasure cruiser, myself.

[Lomcevak]

Yes, I had the EXACT same thing happening on my first outing. VERY heavy rudder, and then would over-control.

Make sure you put in a "breakaway" pin, and I'm sure it'll be fine.

I simply used sticks of the appropriate size sourced from any of the myriad of beaches I came to. Plentiful, free, easy to get, no shipping charges, recyclable, etc.

In a pinch I used the shaft of a ballpoint pen. Not the most suitable, but did the job at the time.