A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

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A Salt Weapon
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A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by A Salt Weapon »

:macm: A/C Install

I keep reading over and over and over again about people trying to make A/C systems work in their Mac 26Ms. Arguments are made on the BTU size, Generator size and "fear" of drilling a hole in the hull for thru hull. The system I installed works, there is no argument to be made and please learn from this; One of the other members (boomboom2.blogspot.com) installed a 9000btu and took it out because it didn't blow cold enough. He moved up to a 12,000btu and loves it. I learned from his decision and took his advise. I bought a different name brand than his but BTU and physical sizes are the same.
I installed the Webasto 12,000BTU Reverse Cycle Air/Heat kit (See my Mod Page) in about 18 hours. The kit was complete with the exception of exit hose length to transom, d/c wiring to pump, a/c wiring to breaker and 1 straight air box. I mounted the unit on mounting 3/4" blocks opposite of the tank vent in the v birth closest to the head bulkhead (it fit under the removable lid). I cut a hole in the floor near the porta potty for the wye and ran straight up the bulkhead wall to a 90 degree air box mounted in the mirrored wall. (it reduces room along the wall in the head but the sacrifice is worth it) From the wye I ran the duct straight down the starboard side under the seats (yes the 5 inch insulated duct fits) to the rear berth to a straight air box vent. i mounted the thru hull/seacock, sea stainer and pump under the aft starboard seat. I also installed the Marvair CR330 Condensation Removal Kit for the a/c unit drain pan. The unit started and ran perfectly from the start.
This modification made all the difference in comfort for us. The ability to use the companion way without stepping over the window unit makes entering and exiting much more comfortable. We use a Honda 2000, mounted under the helm seat,(small cut out for height) when not at the dock, it starts the system without any trouble at all and will run for approximately 4 hours on a tank (1 gallon). We used this over the 4th of July weekend in Florida and had to turn the system down because it got too cold in 90 degree weather. We don't have a duct/vent for the v birth and it stays warmer there. I may add it later but we use the v birth for storage. Sorry I don't have any pictures of the completed install. I'm working overseas and the boat is in storage now. I will post in November when I return home.
Other members have installed different name brands with the same BTU rating and had the same great results. It doesn't matter the name brand of the A/C unit or in some cases the generator. I can attest to the fact that this system works, get over the fear of drilling a thru hull in the boat and enjoy having an A/C unit that works great, out of the companion way and virtually unseen within the cabin. Its freezing cold in my boat and the reverse cycle heat will be nice in the colder nights. Please put this topic to rest its been beat up enough. Drill the hole, mount the system and enjoy! :D
Last edited by A Salt Weapon on Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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wbpenney
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by wbpenney »

Glad the AC is working for you!! I did upgrade mine from a 9000btu to a 12000btu and it works great for us. For another upgrade I just bought a 16000 btu reverse cycle AC, but that is attached to a Catalina 310!!
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A Salt Weapon
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by A Salt Weapon »

Hey Boom Boom II...I lost your email and looked all over the forum to find you. I referenced you in my comment. Thank you so much for your inspiration to install this. It was a little bit of work and not as finished as yours but WOW the Admiral loves it! I'll be home in November to install the solar panel for the fridge and install the auto pilot. Thanks again!
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DaveB
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by DaveB »

Do a search on ac units for the Mac. You will find a 5000 btu air condition in hatch works perfect in sw florida in summer. Builtin system 6500 BTU with air cool or water cool (Adlar Barber) works great here.
Most Mac owners put the 5000 btu in hatch while in marina camping, The 5000 draws 4 amps max. so even the 1000 gen. can run it.
I run a 5000 btu AC on my 14x 16 toy hauler, use a 2000 gen. powerhorse $600 To power AC lights, Refig.,AC. Battery Charger (twin TroJan 105 Golf Batteries), water pump and 900 watt microwave.
Also runs Ice cube maker and 19 inch tv.
More quite than Honda 2000 at 52 db.
Will fit same space as Honda 2000.
Burns 1 Gal. at 50% 8 hrs
Can run AC all night 9 hrs on single gas fill.
The twin Golf batteries are rated at 450 amp hrs and that alone will run my Edgestar 65 quart frig. and others for a week without charging and draw 50 %.

This has been stated in forum along with many other members who have done their research and have posted.
Dave
A Salt Weapon wrote::macm: A/C Install

I keep reading over and over and over again about people trying to make A/C systems work in their Mac 26Ms. Arguments are made on the BTU size, Generator size and "fear" of drilling a hole in the hull for thru hull. The system I installed works, there is no argument to be made and please learn from this; One of the other members (boomboom2.blogspot.com) installed a 9000btu and took it out because it didn't blow cold enough. He moved up to a 12,000btu and loves it. I learned from his decision and took his advise. I bought a different name brand than his but BTU and physical sizes are the same.
I installed the Webasto 12,000BTU Reverse Cycle Air/Heat kit (See my Mod Page) in about 18 hours. The kit was complete with the exception of exit hose length to transom, d/c wiring to pump, a/c wiring to breaker and 1 straight air box. I mounted the unit on mounting 3/4" blocks opposite of the tank vent in the v birth closest to the head bulkhead (it fit under the removable lid). I cut a hole in the floor near the porta potty for the wye and ran straight up the bulkhead wall to a 90 degree air box mounted in the mirrored wall. (it reduces room along the wall in the head but the sacrifice is worth it) From the wye I ran the duct straight down the starboard side under the seats (yes the 5 inch insulated duct fits) to the rear berth to a straight air box vent. i mounted the thru hull/seacock, sea stainer and pump under the aft starboard seat. I also installed the Marvair CR330 Condensation Removal Kit for the a/c unit drain pan. The unit started and ran perfectly from the start.
This modification made all the difference in comfort for us. The ability to use the companion way without stepping over the window unit makes entering and exiting much more comfortable. We use a Honda 2000, mounted under the helm seat,(small cut out for height) when not at the dock, it starts the system without any trouble at all and will run for approximately 4 hours on a tank (1 gallon). We used this over the 4th of July weekend in Florida and had to turn the system down because it got too cold in 90 degree weather. We don't have a duct/vent for the v birth and it stays warmer there. I may add it later but we use the v birth for storage. Sorry I don't have any pictures of the completed install. I'm working overseas and the boat is in storage now. I will post in November when I return home.
Other members have installed different name brands with the same BTU rating and had the same great results. It doesn't matter the name brand of the A/C unit or in some cases the generator. I can attest to the fact that this system works, get over the fear of drilling a thru hull in the boat and enjoy having an A/C unit that works great, out of the companion way and virtually unseen within the cabin. Its freezing cold in my boat and the reverse cycle heat will be nice in the colder nights. Please put this topic to rest its been beat up enough. Drill the hole, mount the system and enjoy! :D
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wbpenney
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by wbpenney »

So now we have some Mac owners who have done research and posted about installing central AC units! Comes down to personal preference I guess.
ecossebob
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by ecossebob »

DaveB, Hi.

You did not say which generator you are using. Is it really quieter than the Honda 2000?.
I am about to buy one and any advice would be wellcome. Can give me the specs price and where you purchaced it?.
Thanks Bob.
ecossebob
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by ecossebob »

Sorry Dave.
I just reread your post and you do say it is a powerhorse. Now where would I get one.
Thanks Bob
ps. next time I will wear my specs.
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Hamin' X
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by Hamin' X »

ecossebob wrote:Sorry Dave.
I just reread your post and you do say it is a powerhorse. Now where would I get one.
Thanks Bob
ps. next time I will wear my specs.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004RC ... GECXKD2H0P
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A Salt Weapon
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by A Salt Weapon »

I should have stated more clearly. It is a personal preference to which type of A/C system we use. I was addressing only those who have interest in a Central Reverse Cycle A/C system. We prefer not to have anything on deck or in the companion way. All three systems are good (Companion Way, Hatch or Central) and all have been addressed throughout this forum. Many have said that a Honda 2000 or similar name brand will NOT start/run a 12,000btu / 7amp Central A/C system. I proved this information incorrect. People have tried to install smaller Central BTU systems and have been disappointed with performance. Regarding the noise level of the Honda vs other name brands; I looked for the best warrantee and name brand. I didn't concern myself with a couple of decibles difference in sound. Others may be concerned with that....It doesn't matter the name brand as long as it will start the Central A/C and run it. I also didn't concern myself with costs. My Admiral wanted to be cool and be free to move from below decks through the companion way and lay out on the bow with no unsightly or obstructed interference. I hope my information was informative and not provoking. I've learned a lot from the many Macgregor owners here and implemented many of the modifications. I'm very grateful to each of you who have posted your ideas, modifications and sometimes failures.
Joe
Last edited by A Salt Weapon on Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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A Salt Weapon
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by A Salt Weapon »

I thought I'd check to see if i screwed up when I paid $200 (on sale) more and did my "research" ...Honda better fuel economy (smaller tank), lower db(A) rating, lighter weight and hooked directly to 12 gallon tank...run time irrelivent:

Honda EU2000i: http://powerequipment.honda.com/generat ... ls/eu2000i
Engine Honda GX100
Displacement 98.5cc
AC Output 120V 2000W max. (16.7A) 1600W rated (13.3A)
Receptacles 20A 125V Duplex
DC Output 12V, 96W (8A)
Starting System Recoil
Fuel Tank Capacity .95 gal :?:
Run Time per Tankful 3.4hr @ rated load 8.1 hrs @ 1/4 load
:D
Dimensions (L x W x H) 20.2" x 11.4" x 16.7"
Noise Level 59 dB(A) @ rated load 53dB(A) @ 1/4 load :|
Dry Weight 45.6 lb. :)
Residential Warranty 3 Years
Commercial Warranty 3 Years

2000Wi Powerhorse: http://www.powerhouse-products.com/powe ... ct/2000wi/
AC Output: Rated / Max (Watts) 1900 / 2000 W
Continuous Run Time (hr)
(Full Load / 1/4 Load) 3.4 / 8.2 hrs :o
Dry Weight (lbs) 62 lbs :(
Generator Dimensions 19.1"H x 11.3"W x 21.3"D
Noise Level @ 23 ft.
(Zero Load / Full Load) 56 / 66 dB :|
Automatic Low Oil Shutdown Yes
Certifications EPA, CETL, CARB, ISO
Choke Manual
DC Output 12 V - 8.3 A
Electric Circuit Breaker Inverter Controlled and Panel Mounted
Engine Type Single Cylinder, 4-Stroke OHV, Air-Cooled, Gasoline
Fuel Economy Switch Yes
Fuel Type Unleaded Gasoline
Fuel Tank Capacity (gal) 1.4 gal :?:
Horsepower (hp) / Displacement 4.35 hp / 125 cc
Ignition System Electronic Ignition
Max Current (A) 16.7 A
Max Output (kW) 2.0 kW
Oil Capacity (oz) 15.6 oz
Oil Type 15W-40
Overload Reset Switch No
Primer Bulb Yes
Rated Current (A) 15.8 A
Rated Frequency (Hz) 60 Hz
Rated Output (kW) 1.9 kW
Rated Voltage (V) 120 V
Receptacles One 120 V, 20 A 5-20R Duplex
Starting System Recoil
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Jimmyt
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by Jimmyt »

Sounds like your install works great - thanks for posting. Would love to see some pics when you get home. I like the design of the condensate removal unit - did you take note of how well it worked?

I wouldn't get too hung up over sound ratings and fuel consumption data. Those little Hondas are sweet running units and should have good, available support.

You can check the A/c mod off. What's next? Don't want all that surplus money to start piling up - it is a boat after all... (Hole in the water into which we throw money)
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A Salt Weapon
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by A Salt Weapon »

Hey Jimmyt,
The Condensation Removal Kit worked great. We were at the dock for a couple of days hooked to shore power. We ran the system almost full time and there was little residual condensation in the pan. It works like a syphon inline of the return. I was pretty impressed. I thought I would need to clean the raw water strainer every day but I only had to clean some sea grass out once during our 10 day trip.
Next mod is the 100 watt solar panel mounted to the mast arch. It will maintain the refrigerator, stereo and TV batteries. I'm going to put together a list and pics of all the mods. The most useful mod so far it the bow roller extention for the Rocna. I'm still working on the Forespar Dinghy Davit mod but should be done with it soon after I get home.
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Jimmyt
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by Jimmyt »

Yeah, I liked the concept of the Venturi on the condensate rig - simple.

Sounds like you're keeping the economy going - those are some great projects!
dxg4848
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by dxg4848 »

I am installing Webasto FCF 12000 unit and wondering if you worried about bonding?

It says in manual on page 11: 'Connect all metallic parts in contact with seawater to the vessel's bonding system including the speed scoop inlet, strainer, pump and the air conditioner. Failure to do so will void warranty.'

I don't want warranty to be voided. My strainer is plastic. I don't see bonding connection on March pump. Seacock does have bonding connection. I think I just need to run wire from seacock to A/C unit bonding connection and connect them together. Am I thinking about it right?
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A Salt Weapon
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Re: A/C Install & Generator fears put to rest!

Post by A Salt Weapon »

Research your AC and DC system and see how it is bonded. I'm not sure if what your asking is sufficient. Either way it is not that difficult to create a bonding wiring/system to each component. I'm still researching this issue as well. Better safe than sorry.
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