Lakes and Rivers Boat?????

[Neo]

Hi All,

A few week back I sailed in a Magnum, which a respected Trailer Sailer here in Aus. It has a hydraulically operated and heave keel (center board) which keeps it upright but you could easily heel the deck into water if your weren't ready to depower the main. I've not been able heeled that far over in my Mac even when there was no ballast so the Magnum did'nt impress me in that respect.
I had and good look around the boat. Sure the hull was more solid and tiller was great to work with but other fixtures and fittings did'n't really impress me.

Last weekend I sailed our local lake (Brisbane Water) with some new found sailing skills I learnt on the Magnum. I had my first race with a proper yacht, 30ft'er. They were flying a Main and a Genoa but all I had was my old main because my furler had jammed. The admiral was complaining about all the heeling so I kept having to depower but we still beat them both times (two tacks) hands down!!

So my question .... Is the Mac really only a Lakes and Rivers Boat?.... or for coastline sailing, is it just as good as all the other Trailer Sailers out there?

Please provide your thoughts on this?

All the best.
Neo

[Highlander]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL8FeXDKD84

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjH954wD2_g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZXE2edO8VM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_32S9YNMOU

U tell me lol

J

[Mac26Mpaul]

Neo,

Certainly not just a Lakes and Rivers boat - also bays, estuaries and coastal sailing with a keen weather eye and preferably with not too far between safe harbours.

I have just come back from 5 days out on Moreton bay, and I happened to meet up with Dennis on his X on Moreton Island. He had just sailed down from the Sunshine Coast ( All day ocean sail).

Of course they cant really be compared to some heavy 6 ton keeler but just as capable as the majority of trailer sailers, (with a few good built in safety features).

By no means the fastest of course, but contrary to popular internet expert opinions, not the slowest either! And certainly a hull of a lot more cruiser user friendly than the vast majority, if not all, of the other trailer sailers available in Oz

Comparing the Mac to my last 18 foot trailer sailer, the Mac is definitely faster downhill, a little faster on a reach, and probably a little slower uphill - and an infinitely better cruising boat!

Probably wouldn't bet any money on any races I was going to have with a Magnum though

In fact, if a race is on, and you want to find me, look for the boat flying the "Its 5 oclock somewhere" flag, at anchor with the owner happily sipping on his sundowner in the cockpit

[Ixneigh]

Parts of The mac sure do look gimpy. But They have been produced in such numbers, sold to often rank beginners, and sailed in different parts of the world in different conditions. Major issues would have become apparent. Mine flexes jiggles and creaks. You can push the hull side in. But I quit worrying about all that and now just enjoy the boat more. Do I like the sidewalk solidness of my friend 36 foot vintage fiberglass keel boat? Sure. But its a different boat. I could easily afford one but I haven't bought one yet. Plus if I do manage to break the mac from just normal use think of how much attention ill get in this forum!
Ix

[Neo]

Awesome response Paul .... Many thanks for that

Thanks Ix....

Mine flexes jiggles and creaks.

I've not noticed mine doing that.

You can push the hull side in.

Seriously?... Like it physically pops into the cabin?

[yukonbob]

Not as easy as it sounds but yes a little flex. More prominent when getting smashed into the dock and fenders by the wind.

[Neo]

Interesting yukonbob.... Does it only happen on the Port (longer, unsupported) side or both?
Where abouts does it happen? ... ie. 1ft, 2ft back from the dagger board?

[yukonbob]

Yes more so on port side in between the rub rail/deck hull joint and tabbing for port side settee right where your fenders tend to lie when at dock. Below the waterline the hull gets thicker.

[NiceAft]

I don't waste time even thinking about such things. The Mac's have proven themselves to being great boats. Don't worry about whether the boats are lake boats, riverboats, offshore boats, etc. just sail them

Ray
~~_/)~~

[kadet]

...the Mac is definitely faster downhill, a little faster on a reach, and probably a little slower uphill - and an infinitely better cruising boat!

Cruisers don't sail upwind that is what the motor is for, if I wanted a racer I would have bought a racer not an

You cannot find any other 26 footer with the accommodation level of the Macs, you are not going to sail across oceans in one but for that matter no other trailer sailer would either (OK some nutters crossed Bass in Sunbird 25s but they are more akin to trailerable keelers than trailer sailers at 3+ ton on the trailer same as Noelex/Binks 30s and RL28s)

Would I go to NZ in my no, but I am planning to coastal hop up the east coast of Queensland in the not too distant future. Is this the best boat for this, well no there are things I would like, like an inboard motor or outboard in a well. Is it capable of doing it, yes this is more about the captain than the boat e.g don't try and cross wide bay with a strong south easter and 5 metre swell running .

All boats are a compromise and the is far more capable than people give it credit for, you actually have 250kg more ballast in your thank a Magnum which has 400kg of lead, the has 136kg of permanent ballast and 520kg of water ballast. They both carry about the same standard sail area about 28 square metres. The has high freeboard and points like sh~t. But in a seaway high freeboard is nice when the waves are trying to crash over your deck.

Just because they are build light weight doesn't mean they are unseaworthy, modern GRP is very strong material and builders have learnt since the 70s that the whole boat does not need to be 20mm thick to be seaworthy :macm:s are thick where they need to be and light where they don't. :macm:s have no through hull and a nice self draining cockpit with a high step to the hatchway. Think of a PET bottle with the lid on. Try and sink that by bomb diving that in your pool. That is essentially what an is.

[yukonbob]

Don't get me wrong. There nothing wrong with the hull flex. We've were beaten against a dock one evening donnas the fender pushed up and out and we didn't know it. Next morning we were sitting there having breakfast watching the hull push in. So I went to look and found no fender. I was totally surprised there was zero damage after being beaten against the dock for who knows how long as there was as also a bent over nail head sticking out hitting the hull. Again, no damage at all not even a scratch.

[Mac26Mpaul]

As to the hull flex. yes you can push in about midships and it will flex in a little. Remember that these boats were not built in the "more to be sure" 50s to 70s era of plastic boat building. They were designed on a computer (Probably running windows 3.1 if Rogers website was anything to go by ) and I'm pretty confident Roger Macgregor knew exactly what he was doing. I know the hull flex has been a favorite of bashers over the years, but I was of the opinion it was part of the design - i.e its meant to do that!

I remember someone bringing the flex up on here and Laura (Macgregor) popped in and asked the person commenting if they have ever noticed the wing flex on an airliner as it takes off or goes through turbulence. i.e its meant to do that.

Yep, they are not designed to have 50 foot waves breaking about them in Bass Strait but then again, an empty coke bottle with the lid on would live through that and make it to Tasmania no worries, so maybe the Mac would too

[Highlander]

FYI
The was designed on the same computer programming system that the Boeing 747 Airplane was , so that should tell U something "good"

J

[Neo]

Pedigree for sure but the Boeing 747 first flight was in 1969 so I hope they updated the software ....

[Ixneigh]

Oh oh oh that was meee!!!! Haaahahaha
And yes. The flex is disconcerting to an ex keelboater. But I know why it does it. Go out sailing in the gulf stream on a breezy day to see it in action. In the days of 3/4 in thick fiberglass flex was not apparent. It was also heavy wet and slow. If you think the mac points like sht try a 7000 pound 23×8 1/2 footer with a full keel and deep v sections forward.
That my friends is a boat that wont point very well. Hobby horse honey. If I had to sail either across the banks right now its the mac hands down.
I sailed the v22 across the banks too. Thought the centerboard truck and swing keel was going to fall right out of her later that night when the winds picked up. But they didn't and the boat when on to survive some very rough treatment by the crazy person I sold her to.
And incidentally I had no storm tactics I felt comfortable with on the 23. She weighed too much to sit on a sea anchor. Running with a Jordan drogue would see the low cockpit constantly filled. Lying ahull was bound to beat her large outboard rudder to pieces . not to mention shed be awash constantly.

I think a mac could lie to her anchor and rode with additional line bent on, and perhaps a spare sail or something. Pull the rudder up and lash them tight. Leave the board half down. How long shed do it is anyone's guess but she wouldn't be shipping as much water on Deck as my old 23 because she's a lot lighter and more buoyant. You could turn her down wind on a drogue steering with the motor down and in gear. Lying a hull might be suicide or might not. But will be uncomfortable as all get out.
Hopefully someone else can figure that one out
Ix