Mast Raising Alterations 26M

[Jimmyt]

Will post it in mods if it's an improvement over stock, or will let you guys enjoy my blunder if it bombs...

I often raise or lower the mast in a cross wind. The mast tends to sway more than I'm comfortable with, using the stock M raising rig. Raising stays attach to the stanchions at one end, and to the mast raising connection at the mast. So, at about 6 feet off the deck, the rig allows an 8" (approx) range of motion - which is significant at the 30 foot mark. It doesn't feel really good until the standing rigging catches it near the full up position. The stanchion connection point is NOT inline with the mast pivot point, so it is not merely a matter of connecting stays directly to the mast to eliminate the slop. Finally got time to perform the first stage of my "mod" this week - relocation of the stanchion attachment point.


Cut off the loop.


Get the proper alignment -about 1-3/4" lower and about 3/4" forward.


Try to get enough heat sink to prevent burning down the boat and the house using wet towel and vice grips...


Practice on a few stainless bolts to get settings right...

Now to roll it outside, adjust the stay length and see if it helped...

[Jimmyt]

Finished pic..

[Highlander]

with me having two furlers for Jib & Genny cutter rigged I basically just added two 3/16 lines to the top of the MRS pole & shackle them onto the same location on the stanchions posted it on here long time ago but the two S/S brkts on the bottom of the gin pole r still very weak & constantly can,t stand the pressure of the force put on them so they try to bend & collapse requiring me to grab the gin pole & help support it , so I,m going replace these S/S crappy soft brkt,s with say a Alum U channel 4x2" approx needs to b proto typed first for clearance issue,s & likely require a thicker walled gin pole for adequate strength also so as it doe,s not snap off at the base from over loading , so I,ll b watching ur progress

J

[Jimmyt]

I had to straighten my lower brackets, so I feel your pain. I'm hoping if I keep the mast steady, it won't stress the bottom bracket so much. If it bends again, I'll weld a cross brace on it - similar to what you're contemplating. It's pretty flimsy as-is.

Since I trailer every time, I'm trying to get all of this stuff squared away so I don't have to worry about it.

Got my furler support finished finally. Of course if you build one it'll have to look like a Gatling gun

[Russ]

Nice welding skillz.

I've always had the same concern. That gin pole bracket is very wobbly and bends. If you figure a way to make it stronger, post pics.

I found eliminating as much slack in the system helps. But as you said, when the mast is low it has the most slack because of alignment issues.
Is that shackle part of your mast raising system.
Also, that mast crutch is awesome.

[Jimmyt]

Nice welding skillz.

I've always had the same concern. That gin pole bracket is very wobbly and bends. If you figure a way to make it stronger, post pics.

I found eliminating as much slack in the system helps. But as you said, when the mast is low it has the most slack because of alignment issues.
Is that shackle part of your mast raising system.
Also, that mast crutch is awesome.

Lost my MIG and stick welders in a fire. Always wanted to try TIG, so replaced them with a dual function TIG/stick unit. I really like TIG. I originally learned on an oxy/acetylene rig, so TIG is somewhat intuitive. There is virtually no noise or spatter. If I can do it, it's got to be pretty easy.

Will post pics if/when I modify the gin pole brackets.

The snap shackle isn't part of it yet, but could be. I haven't looked at the probable loading yet, but if the numbers work, I'll use them. I think they are rated at 300 lbs, but need to verify. I still don't have the garage cleaned up since my house fire, so I tend to store extra bits where I won't forget where I put them. The one in the foreground is currently connected to my Raising stay - good eye!

Thanks for the mast crutch comment. My projects tend to breed projects. When I built my furler support, I realized that the rotating mast would just flop over on my old mast support - causing grief while mounting the furler support and stowing the furler. So I built a new one with a v-crotch to help hold the mast in the vertical position while I'm securing the furler support and furler. All of this falls under the umbrella of reducing my setup/takedown time and effort. Before, I had to put a ratchet strap around the mast in the cockpit area - near the rear Support roller to hold the mast still. That meant leaving the work area on the foredeck to secure the mast - costing me extra time and effort.

I had a chance last night to pull a string through the mast pivot bolt holes and check the new alignment. I got it nearly perfect, so if I haven't made a gross error in judgement (Tomfoolery will certainly let me know if I have...), the Raising stay tension should be consistent throughout the raising movement.

Still have the lifeline/spreader situation to work out. Currently, I unpin the spreader from the pivot point, lay it flat on the lifelines and bungee it to the lifelines. Think it may be quicker to drop the lifelines and leave the spreader connected...

Thanks again for the comments, and if you see anything stupid, don't hesitate to point it out. As my daddy always said, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Russ]

Thanks for the mast crutch comment. My projects tend to breed projects. When I built my furler support, I realized that the rotating mast would just flop over on my old mast support - causing grief while mounting the furler support and stowing the furler. So I built a new one with a v-crotch to help hold the mast in the vertical position while I'm securing the furler support and furler.

Alright, you just gave me a new project. I simply have a 2x4 with a notch in it for a mast crutch at the step. The crutch also helps keep down the bouncing of the mast on the road.
And just like you said, the mast rotates. So when I try to strap the furler to the front of the mast, it pulls the mast over sideways.
That crutch would solve that problem. Looks pretty simple and secure. I'm making one. I guess a simple template to mark cuts in the plywood.

Before, I had to put a ratchet strap around the mast in the cockpit area - near the rear Support roller to hold the mast still.

Alright..until I make a new crutch, this is a great idea. I have just used a dockline to wrap around everything, but it doesn't really hold. A ratchet strap is a simple solution!!

Raising stay tension should be consistent throughout the raising movement.

Yup. I think that's the key. Keeping it from swinging sideways. And when the mast is low, it really wants to swing. That's when the gin pole bracket starts to bend and gets scary.

Still have the lifeline/spreader situation to work out. Currently, I unpin the spreader from the pivot point, lay it flat on the lifelines and bungee it to the lifelines. Think it may be quicker to drop the lifelines and leave the spreader connected...

I bent spreaders keeping them on during trailering. They need to go UNDER the lifelines and that's a PITA. So now I unbolt (pins would make it faster) them and bungee them to the mast. I'll grab all the rigging and bunch it up and bungee to the mast.
.
.
GOOD STUFF! You should post it in the mods section.

[Russ]

Heat sinks are probably critical. I doubt the fiberglass would burn, but it could damage the resin and discolor.
The engineer types (eg: Tomfoolery) might know more. But heating up that deck fitting too much could melt the sealant and cause rainwater leaks.

I've watched youtube videos on wire welders and Harbor Freight has them cheap. I've always wanted to play with one. From what I've seen, it is an art and skill.

Try to get enough heat sink to prevent burning down the boat and the house using wet towel and vice grips...

[Jimmyt]

First look at stay tensions. Looks like a 300 lb working load shackle would be ok.

Might look it over a few more times before I commit.

I'm right with you Russ. I don't want the mast to move one iota off of centerline when raising and lowering. That's my goal, anyway...

General Note: Calcs are for my reference only - shown here to illustrate my thought process. If you alter your rigging, you should seek professional engineering help to determine the adequacy of your riggin to support any loading you anticipate.

[Jimmyt]

Ratchet strap on mast... since you seemed interested.

[Jimmyt]

Backed her out of the garage and moved the mast back to the mast base to measure my raising stay lengths. If I use the snap shackles, the starboard stay is the right length and the port stay is 1/4" too long. That 1/4" of slack gives me about 10-12" of swing at the mast free end. I'll want to try to get that 1/4" out if I can, but it is WAY better than it was.

The relocated stanchion attachment points landed perfectly. Stays maintained consistent tension (slack) through the raising. Toying with the idea of turnbuckles on the raising stays so I can get them dialed in perfectly.

While I had everything loose, I dropped the lifelines and pinned the spreader back on. Looks like securing the rigging for trailering will be a bit more challenging. Previously, I used the lifelines to secure the spreader and stays, so I'm going to have to rethink my tie down strategy.

If anyone uses the lifelines-down configuration and has a pic on the trailer, I'd appreciate a look. A description would help if you don't have a pic.

[Highlander]

I should have pics of my setup on my laptop somewhere I'll see if I can find them later today when I get back home
J

[kurz]

I think Jimmy is right. The more the mast goes down the more the rising lines gets longer.

Just an idea: Maybe you could put the mast raising lines in a ring and give a line to this ring. The more the mast goes down you pull the ring. And this ring takes the lines together and makes them shorter.

[Jimmyt]

I should have pics of my setup on my laptop somewhere I'll see if I can find them later today when I get back home
J

Thanks!

[Jimmyt]

I think Jimmy is right. The more the mast goes down the more the rising lines gets longer.

Just an idea: Maybe you could put the mast raising lines in a ring and give a line to this ring. The more the mast goes down you pull the ring. And this ring takes the lines together and makes them shorter.

I had similar thoughts using blocks, springs, etc. Finally, the old engineer brain cells just gave in and went with a conventional fix - correct the apparatus geometry... I was looking for a reason to weld some stainless too, so that played into it.

I'm sure you can come up with a different approach that works as well.