M vs X Cockpit Size Comparison

[PeteC]

I am just starting to look for another sailboat. I currently have a little Windrider 16 trimarran that I learned to sail on. I want a larger boat for sailing (my main interest) and motorboating (wife and kids main interest). Mac 26X/M sure looks like the ticket for me.

I have only seen the X on a trailer. Can't wait to sail one, X or M.

Important issue for me is cockpit size. I have read the factory site but they play up the M of course.

Has anyone sailed or sat in both? How do the cockpits compare? Which would be better suited for handling the 4 of us (me, wife, 2 teenagers) and occasionally 2 more people (6 total)?

Any other suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks and I have learned a lot from this site already.

Pete in Hampton, VA

[Kevin]

I dearly love Dwen, my M boat, but in the area of cockpit size the X boats win without a doubt.

I've been on both going back and forth and there isn't even the slightest doubt. The X is just more roomy.

There is no way I could see 6 adults (or near adults) in an M cockpit with any degree of comfort or efficiency.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I have an X, and have been in an M many times. If you get out the tape you will find that they are not that much different. The seat length in a M is the same as the X. What makes it seem cramped is the new footwell design. The two seats on each side are closer to each other so the footwell is narrower. People said they had a hard time bracing their feet on the opposite seat of an X when heeled so they moved them closer together. It's one of the reasons they went to the pedestal helm to free up some footroom. Added to this is the bridge of the seat at the companion way entrance to support the traveler. This takes almost 2' out of the footwell length. The net effect of these two changes is it adds a nice amount of extra space in the aft berth, but makes the cockpit seem cramped. The raise helm seat while great in practice also seems to make the aft portion of the seats less usable. When I modified my X to have a raised helm seat I also designed it to be reversable back to a flat one as well.

I was out sailing on an M with 5 adults on board and we finally decided to have one person stand in the companionway to make enough room in the cockpit to operate the boat. My X cockpit does not feel nearly as crowded even with 6 on board.

You can gain back a bit of cockpit space by adding the aft pulpit seatsala the Hunter boats. The link is to a mod that shows them on a M.

[Frank C]

You can gain back a bit of cockpit space by adding the aft pulpit seatsala the Hunter boats. The link is to a mod that shows them on a M.

Duane - not targeting you in any manner, since you're simply conveying the availability ....

However, this option exacerbates the long-standing debate over bigger motors diminishing sailing performance. Add two crew to those rail seats and your effective 50 hp transom weight jumps from 225 to +500. Now you've got way more weight back there than Billy's 140 hp Suzuki.

Give me more horses, fewer crew, any day. Both sailing and powering will benefit.

[Timm Miller]

Hey Pete, I will be keeping our 2002 26X at Custom House in Hampton this season. Come around and you can have a look around. Boat name is Boom Shaka Laka, we are Timm and Krista Miller...and now baby Hampton Miller.

[Joe 26M Time Warp]

handling the 4 of us (me, wife, 2 teenagers) and occasionally 2 more people (6 total)?

I've sat on boats and agree the cockpit seems slightly larger, however for my comfort level a total of 3 people is fine, and 4 adult sized people to me seems like a maximum. I don't care if the has slightly more room in the cockpit, neither of these boats are going to be very comfortable with six full sized people.
We've had 4 adults total several times, and 5 once including a 10 year old, I think if you had double the cockpit space of the or the you would still only be approaching comfort with 6 full sized people.
Obviously, this is only my opinion. To me comfort means the ability for two people to "sail" the boat working together as a team. There's a reason those J-boats are like 40 feet long and have a 12' beam. Thinking back now, 3 aboard a Cabo Rico seemed just fine for sailing also. adding 3 more would've made for a crowded cockpit on that 42 footer.

[PeteC]

Popeye,

Email me as soon as you get settled.

PeteC

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

To play a bit of devil's advocate here...sure, I am one of the few that sails in the MacX with a family of 6 and of course, there are a few others. But honestly, how many people on this board have such large sailing families? I would suspect that at least 75% of the people here are sailing with crews of 1 or 2 people... Duane made some excellent points earlier about how the X is a great use of space for a large family....and when I read that, it made me even more glad that I got an X...cause it made good sense and Duane has a lot of large-family boat-camping experience (I was seriously considering an M since I bought last June when both could be had just as easily...so I enjoy any points which further justify my difficult decision at the time). So, I guess my point is that "designing a 26 foot trailerable sailboat for a large family" probably will not happen just due to the market forces. Btw, my wife chose the X over the M due to less altitude at the companionway for kids to fall into the cabin with...so, yet another "kid reason" for X over M. If there were no kids involved (and no shallow Tampa Bay waters), we very well may have chosen the M over the X.

Oh, and in all fairness (in case this is a decision point), even at 5'8", you can not comfortably stand up and pee in an X potty either Well, unless you leave the door open and do it from the outside of the head compartment (where there is adequate head room, haha - pun intended)....which I don't do when the kids (or guests) are aboard..lol So, if you want privacy in the X head, you are probably gonna be doing the "sitdown pee" thing anyway....

[PeteC]

Hey Timm, I took my wife to Custom House marina to look at your boat but they told me you wouldnt be in until April. No problem as I took her to look at a trailered 26X at the Langley marina.

Now heres my problem. Growing up my wifes family had a motor boat with seating up front. She loved being out in the open on the boat. She considers the Mac cockpit too cramped and doesnt see how you can sit up on the bow to take in the view from the front.

Is there any problem having people sit up on the bow? Im just talking about while sightseeing in calm conditions, not while motoring or sailing fast.

Thanks,

Pete

[Chip Hindes]

I sit or stand against the bow pulpit using the forestay as a handhold all the time, under normal motoring or sailing conditions. For an extra treat you can hang your feet out over the bow, although with the high freeboard they're still several feet above the water.

It's not a sundeck; you can't fall sleep up there and you have to hang on.

I wouldn't let kids do this, you should restrict it to no more than two adults, and you shouldn't do it at high angles of heel. You probably shouldn't do it without ballast except in calm conditions. Too much weight too high on the boat is unstable and could cause a capsize.

We have friends whose kids think sitting or standing on the V-berth with their heads or bodies through the front hatch is the greatest fun ever. We consider that on deck rather than below and make them wear their life jackets when they do so.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

The bow is actually quite spacious. My kids spend a fair bit of time up front while under way. We prefer for them to take the through the hatch route to get there and even standing or sitting with your feet in the hatch is great as Chip says. It's actually quite cool to be on the bow while sailing. The 'X' sails better with more weight on the bow and there is something neat about being right up with the sails. Just be sure to have them duck when you tack. Ever watched the bowmen on an Americas cup boat? It's amazing they don't get scraped right of the deck by those low deck sweeping sails.

When we have our dingy rolled up on the bow at the hatch it makes a great seat for two.

In 10+ years of boating with small kids on deck we have never had one go in the drink under way. (one did step off a dock last summer for the first time). At first we were worried, we even did the big playpen thing with our first boat by netting the lifelines, but they have proved to be very sure footed. They even run around in their socks (which we discourage) and still don't slip off. We try to have them remember the motto "One hand for the boat and one hand for what ever you are doing". Each year we practice man overboard drills, but have yet to go back and get someone, I keep hoping. Last year we finally forced them to jump off and swim around the boat a bit just to get used to what it felt and looked like. A boat heading in for a pickup can be intimidating from the water level.

[Frank C]

I recall a posting of an East Coast (USA) owner who was cited by Harbor Patrol for having a crew member on the bow underway. I'm pretty sure he was motoring, as it seems unlikely they would prohibit a bowman while under sail .... would they??

[Tony D-26X_SusieQ]

You have to check your local laws. In Maryland for example it is illegal to bow ride. In fact it is illegal for a child to leave the cocpit other than to go below while the boat is under way. By the way if your boat is not anchored, tied to a mooring or tied to a dock then it is under way. So those rules apply even if you're hove-to.

[jmdefino]

That's interesting. What constitutes bow riding?
There must be some definition that would not penalize someone on the bow making sail adjustments while underway.

[Chip Hindes]

Are we sure this is in fact "the law"? How is it worded?

Certainly, sometimes statutes are written by well intentioned but misguided people who fail to take into consideration all aspects, like sail handling.

I can imagine there being such a statute, I can even imagine some doofus of a law enforcement person writing a ticket, but I can't imagine anybody would actually be convicted for such an "offense".