Tom S. Has a great Idea

[Divecoz]

So this wont get lost till. . . . several can tell us its, not possible or impractical to build. .
What about changing the swing rudders to sliders ?? Add on Modification, almost like two daggger boards EXCEPT the backend would be open to swing up out of harm's way in an emergency??
Rule number #1. Keep it simple this is NOT the Queen Mary .
Rule #2. Design it like Roger would. . . good enough to work well, but nothing the people from Swan or Hans or Island P. . .would want their names on necessarily.

[Frank C]

Sorry, I just don't get it.

1) If the backend is left open (permits kicking-up) then the engine transom loses lots of structure & stability?
2) If they're in a dagger-like slot, how do they pivot side to side?
3) And, if they still stick up in the air, we've simply moved them inboard from the transom, objective being a smoother face for a swim platform?

So these changes are practical only for a new hull design, not as a retrofit, right? Seems to me the best retrofit approach would be designing a bayonet-style attachment, permitting them to be removed completely when anchoring, but not sure of the benefits??
Need education ...

[RandyMoon]

I agree. When I read Tom's idea, the wheels started turning and I thought of this as a resulting product being a way to enable retirement 3 years early (trust me, when you reach 57 you start thinking like this). Tom, can I patent the idea??? That is a great idea. It really gets down to a design of the mounting mechanism and the rudders.

I find myself leaving the rudders down because it is such a hassle to pull them up (just motoring from the marina to the lake). The Admiral has a hard time with the rudders (she wants to blast the 90 horsepower across the lake) to the point that I have been contemplating designing some mechanical advantages for her. I would like to add some amenities to the back of the boat (pet or swimming deck) but the swing rudders mess that all up.

Who has access to CATIA ot other CAD programs? Lets design something. I used to be a design engineer. The design would not be a complicated. Heath could sell the resulting modification hardware and pay the moderators big bucks (just kidding!!!)

[Divecoz]

Maybe think of a ball and socket but elongated . Think motor rest PVC mod with another pipe inside but affixed to the rudder. . Now the need for the rudder to move up and back down for a . . . . what ever need / running a ground etc .
And No I gave it little to no thought other than WOW that would be cool . . .

[Richard O'Brien]

Sorry Divecoz. If it kicks up it will encroach on the space dedicated to my new doggy dock. I'm sticking with the bungee loaded, automatic retracting unit. Yes a 3/4" o.d. pipe, and 3/4' i.d. SS sleeve inside the rudder. Easy enough to attach to the existing steering arm... OK, I tried to calculate the speed of the retracting rudder after it hits the rock at 6 knots, and it's way too slow. I think it has to be powder actuated to get out of the way in time? (.007 seconds) Even with a whisker, trigger-switch leading by a couple of inches, a bungee's pretty slow? Back to the drawing board??

[Tom Spohn]

OK guys--I admit I got the idea when I read about another boat that did have vertically deployed rudders, but can't for the life of me remember where I saw it. I discussed it briefly with Todd at BWY who didn't like the idea since the bottom of the rudder must be slightly forward compared with the top of the rudder for proper operation. He felt this would really complicate the bracket that would hold the rudder. ( I agree) I didn't think about this for a long time, then last week when getting into my dink I found myself cussing the rudders sticking up in the air. They are worse on the M since they don't fold all the way up. As far as needing to kick up to avoid touching the bottom, the M has the dagger board firmly stuck before the rudders come into play--unless you are backing of course, but then you are out of luck with the current design as well.

I am not an engineer, but most of my career was trying to get someone to build what our engineers designed. This taught me to believe that the impossible can frequently be elegantly designed. Of course occasionally I ran into a design that nobody could build, but that is another story.

[Chip Hindes]

Just exactly what is the point? For a given length rudder, a slide up rudder will take up exactly the same space as a kickup rudder.

[Greg]

I have been musing about vertical retracting rudders since I purchased our Mac last year. A couple advantages I see would be the ability to install a nice swim deck and be able push down as much rudder as needed to assist in following sea's. I haven't seen other boats with a retractable rudder and as yet haven't come up with a reasonable way of doing it.

Greg

[Terry]

Me Mine
Why did you change your name from You Yours? Did the moderators BAN you under yor your old identity?
Perhaps I am wrong but your style is suspiciously similar

[DLT]

Terry,

I concur. "Me Mine" is, or is actively trying to appear to be, "You Yours"...

[Frank C]

Nah ... I think it's actually

• 
  Dave, the infamous Great Looper!

Welcome back, Kotter!