I saw an announcement about a new Suzuki DF2.5 (hp) 4-stroke. It weighs only 30 lbs. and it's water-cooled. I guess that means it should be less noisy than Honda's air-cooled 4-stroke. It's due out sometime this month. I haven't yet seen a price but I'm guessing that it should be about $700.
Instead, I could use that same $700 for a Honda 1k generator, plus get an inexpensive electric trolling motor. Just guessing again, after getting a small AGM battery for the dink, I'd have spent ~$300 more than the first option. But it also means I've "effectively" gained an on-board generator for only ~ $300, plus stowage wt. about double the gas kicker. I think it also reduces "the need" for a kicker bracket.
Would any kicker owners, gas or electric, like to help brainstorm these two alternatives?
Last edited by Frank C on Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
Hmm.. can an electric actually move the Mac with any sort of wind? I wonder.. it's a whole lotta boat to huff around with an electric, but maybe folks have done it... dunno... interesting thought though...
Kinda doubt that little 2.5 hp would move the Mac either, but the Mac already has both motor, and backup (i.e. the mast & sails). I should have been more clear that I'm thinking of a little motor for a dinghy.
Last edited by Frank C on Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ive posted before that as an experiment, we have brought our X into dock with our 45 lb thrust trolling motor. It is the motor on our dinghy and it will push it through the water for around 1/2 day on one charge and is fast enough that the kids have a ball. Keep in mind that my dinghy is solid wood plank construction and is 11 ft long. (it weighs a ton)
There is also a Yamaha 2.5 4 stroke version available, also about 35 lbs. It has foward and neutral only, spin the motor for reverse.
I believe either altenative would be quieter than the aircooled Honda.
Will be interesting to see what other's can add on this. I was considering the same issue last year before freezeup, and considering either the 2.5 or 4 HP at about 48 lbs.
Has anyone acutally moved a 26X at all with a electric, (assuming in a no wind situation, as a backup for the big HP motor?)
I would guess a 2.5 would move the mac at 2-3 knots. Our 6hp kicker will move the X at 6 knots. I was very surprised. These boats don't need much power below hull speeds. Guess that's why we can actually sail with our stubby rigs.
Yes, I used our Minn-Kota 36# thrust motor on our X to go about one mile from the ramp to our back yard on our small, protected lake which prohibits gas motors. Worked just fine. Went back a couple days later. Probably had some wind both times - don't remember. We have a non-moveable motor mount on the stern to hold our dinghy's short shaft gas kicker out of the water. The long shaft Minn-Kota was able to reach far enough down to work.
The weight savings from an electric motor is kinda mis leading, you need some (two) hefty batterys on some of the 24 volt motors. Like whats used on a bass boat. I have one of those 9.5 foot model inflatables that I use with a 15 horse force outboard, The boat is new and has an inflatable floor or a wood floor my choice. I also have a small 1.5 outboard that is about 20 lbs. with the 15 horse you can cover a lot of ground (water) at a nice planning speed but the 1.5 is way easier to stow and makes a lot more noise. The 15 weighs 60 lbs, it can be carried aboard and left below on its side because its a two stroke but its still heavy. So when useing the 15 setup I tow the boat and motor behind the Mac. Some people use a 6 horse four stroke that weighs a little less then my 15 and like the setup.
I guess what Im saying is the electric motors at first glance seem like a good choice but unless its a salt water version and has enough thrust and you buy a high amp battery charger that will work off the gen (more money and storage) I think a gas powered outboard is the way to go.
I saw what a leaky electric motor did to a lower unit of the outboard on the same boat. It burned through the outboard metal in a couple hours of use.
I also have and use on the mac sometimes a yamaha 1000 watt gen Just about right for the power needs on board for extended trips for me.
about useing the electric motor for the dink, your going to have to put some battery in there to, now you have the same or more weight in the dink as a gas outboard. Even a light weight battery will only last a little while as oposed to a larger deep cycle battery, that deep cycle is going to weigh by itself at least 30 pounds. Now you can always buy a sail kit for your dink ...
(Edit by Moderator: aya16's story about the electricity leak spawned a good discussion of several posts, which have been re-filed as this Galvanic Corrosion topic.)
Wow - you've given some terrific feedback already, including direct experience with 36# to 45# thrust motors. My initial question was directed at dinghy power rather than actually moving the Mac, but it's great to realize that both are possible. However, my idea never intended to save weight by substituting electric for gas. My motivation was to enjoy some dual-purpose synergy, a good mantra for Mac owners.
A) If one is ready to commit funding for a kicker;
B) and if one has a generator on the wish list too, then:
C) combined costs of electric kicker plus generator are lower than the alternative;
D) combined weights are maybe slightly higher;
E) electric can more easily stow inside the cabin;
F) and generator serves to recharge both house and dinghy batteries.
So ... this seems to be a good, overall dual-purpose strategy, or not?
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P.S. Jack, I guess that long-shaft trolling motor works for the Mac,
but probably wouldn't be too good for the dinghy?
Scott, just curious about which motor you have (45# thrust),
which shaft length and what size battery you take in the dink?
And Mike, I was planning to take just a small AGM battery in the dinghy? I'm unsure how "High-amp" a batt-charger the little Honda generator can support, but it should easily drive a cheap 10 amp automotive-style charger?
Frank - my two cents, but when I was kicking around kickers last summer looking for a tender motor solution, I ruled out electric once I decided that the management of batteries was too complicated. I didnt want to end up at a dock with the family on board, wondering if I had enough juice to get back to the mothership on a mooring.
Maybe that was too simplistic, and I cant reproduce all the thought here, but I ended up getting a two cycle Seagull flock
Running a four cycle on a tender is brutal operating mode by the way, it never warms up and lubricates since you usually would only run it a few minutes.
Frank I guess if you have your heart set on an electric it works
run time on a 45lb thrust elect. at full thrust with a 55amp battery about an hour.
generator running 6 hours to run a 10 amp charger to charge a dead 55amp battery, the same gas will run an outboard for 6 hours or close to it.
unless you use your dink to explore you can run all day on an electric. but the same amount of running time on a gas motor will use what about a quart of gas.
you might want to think about the places you will use the electric. If its
Catalina then you have to sometimes fight the current and wind to the
dock. and with a dink full of people,naw we dont overload our dinks, nevermind.
nothing like raw horse power as long as there is gas in the tank you have all the gas outboard has to offer. 1/2 dead battery that elec. isnt going to put out its rated power.
but any way I can tell you want the elec. and I personally have nothing against them so let me know how it goes.
There is one thing I have seen with the elec. A friend brings this little dink sailboat to the lake we all go to every year, the kids,his, scoot around in that thing most of the day with an electric motor. They for some reason hate the sailing part so the mast sits on shore. He charges the battery about three times a day. It seems alot safer and easier to start then an outboard. Although I think the blender on my Mac has more horse power then his elec. motor
That long shaft Minn-Kota is adjustable for depth. Can slide the shaft way up or down. It is a stern drive model, not for the bow. I suspect most of the electrics have adjustable shaft depth.
Thanks guys. It never occurred to me that they might have adjustable shaft length!
Actually, I'm more focused on the generator than the electric motor. My ultimate solution might be buying the generator & troller to see how it works. Could always buy a gas motor if I'm unhappy. I definitely would choose a 12-volt motor (not 24v).
I saw today that Walmart carries a deep-cycle battery with the word "trolling" actually printed on the side, but didn't bother looking at motors. However, Mike's observations aren't lost on me ... one gripe is that the battery alone is almost double the weight of the entire 2.5 hp gas 4-stroke.
