Schnorkle ballast vent valve ?

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ALX357
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Location: Nashville TN -- 2000 MacGregor 26X, Mercury two-stroke 50hp

Schnorkle ballast vent valve ?

Post by ALX357 »

This mod from the site is what I am talking about......

http://www.macgregorsailors.com/cgi-bin ... record=659

I ordered the Ace Hdwr "backwater device" and will prob. install the mod this weekend, --

wanted to know how (well) it is working for those that have done it....

question: can you tell when the tank is full, or do you just have to wait for as long as it should take and trust, or is there a verification method available when using this floating ball system.

:idea: ....could a whistle be put over the valve, somehow, ? to sound while air is leaving (water entering) and stop when full. This would be great, and no need to have it when the air is coming into the tank, since you would be motoring at higher speeds (noisy) and can often tell by the boat's planing attitude and wot speed.
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rockman
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Post by rockman »

I have purchased a similiar device - air relief value - $25 Australian. It has a 25mm opening.

I have glassed in a new nipple to the hole in the air escape hole, that i can screw this device into. But i was wondering if the water will fill up high enough to push the ball up, or will it only go up when the boat pitches?

So i have also got a plastic garden valve setup that will block the hole.

SO the question is - will the water level rise high enough to push the ball up - or do you need to mount the one way valve down into the ballast tank so the water can push the ball up?

Cheers

RockMan
Paul S
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Post by Paul S »

I thought of a valve like that..but didn't like the lack of control. I would prefer to have positive control on the valve. I want to know if it is open or closed. Also, with the potential to not positively close and lock, I didn't do it..

Of course I went with a very over engineered power vent (actuator, plumbing parts, etc) see
http://macgregorsailors.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5169

It is actually quite simple, effective and CHEAP!

Hit the switch, valve opens..and sounds a siren...wait a few minutes to fill...hit the switch..valve closes..siren stops.. Pretty simple too. You know when it is open or closed..you can close it manually.

Works for me.. I don't know of anyone else that has tried this mod ..but it is cool..at least to me it is anyway :)

Paul
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Richard O'Brien
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no problems

Post by Richard O'Brien »

Didn't see your post ALX until now. I have used this mod since the beginning of the season, and haven;t checked it for 3 months. I have had the boat heeled past 45 degrees in a couple of races, and am confident it's held. Just make sure it's on tight, as the heeling forces are substantial I suspect. I go out approx. once, and sometimes twice a week.
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ALX357
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Location: Nashville TN -- 2000 MacGregor 26X, Mercury two-stroke 50hp

Post by ALX357 »

'got my backwater device installed, used a 3/4" gray plastic threaded plumbing nipple into the tank hole, but did not want to make it permanent, or damage the hole with widening it, so I had to sand down the threads that would go into the tank. Threaded the other end of the nipple to a 2" ~ 3/4" PVC reducing adapter, and then the rubber union collar and backwater device float valve.
To keep the ball from air sealing the lower fitting by sitting on the hole, I placed a piece of round plastic with holes punched in it for the ball to sit on, above the pipe, and air to pass thru around the ball. Otherwise, the suction could shut the valve the wrong way.
The valve mounted this way is almost at the top of the dam height, so it's too high for the water to float the ball when the boat is level, but when heeled, I'm sure the water will fill the column and float the ball.
Not trusting the pressed-in / partially screwed plastic to fiberglass fit to be stong enough to withstand the 500 # or so of water weight when heeled over, even with the heavy application of marine silicon caulk, I rigged up a retainer rod across the top of the valve's large plastic top castle nut, attaching the ends of the rod to the top lip of the dam, 180 degrees across. This rod keeps a mechanical retention force to keep the valve and nipple in the hole. Made the rod out of flex copper 1/4" pipe, and flattened the ends, then 7/32" drilled holes in them to bolt down over the dam and valve. I left the pipe/rod in the round to pass thru the slots in the valve's castle nut.
So now trusting the valve assembly will stay in place, from its tight friction fit in the hole, generous silicone marine caulk, tightly screwed together at its rubber union clamps, and retained with the copper flex pipe rod like a car battery holder, even if it gets a small amount of water escaping the ball to gasket seal. The valve will never close when on the level, but then its seal is not needed. Any water that goes up the column should shut it with pressure.
I was concerned about the passive hose arrangements which vented thru the sink's thru-hull, allowing a slow blug blug leak of ballast water to escape the tank when heeled to port, and suck replacement air when it righted, to repeat next heel, and eventually accellerate as the air over the ballast water increased, to produce a partial ballast situation.
Even if a bit of water escpapes the valve when it first seals, and maybe it won't even allow that, it should remain in the dam or cup, and indicate how much is splashing past.
Maybe another column of rubber stacked over the valve to hold the water until the ball drops and the water falls back into the tank could be rigged, but right now that would interfere with my copper retainer rod.
As of now, if the set-up isn't satisfactory, I can still fairly easily remove it altogether and put the plug back in the unchanged hole.
If it works really well, I will probably epoxy it in place, and then plumb a pipe over the valve to carry the stale tank air over to the sink thru-hull, but leave the ball valve for ballast retention. Then it would be truly maintenance free. An audible whistle as the air is pushed out would be great, or maybe the ball will oscillate between the gasket and plastic perforated floor, from the air pressure varying. Reasoning that if the escaping air column forces the ball up against the rubber seat, the water coming in thru the open gate valve would reach a point where it stopped, then back out a bit and allow the ball to fall free, and the air to again escape.
The thing is... obviously I have not yet tested this in the water, - 'boat is on the trailer - so when I have time for launching, rigging and sailing again, we will find out how it all works and the actual results not just my wishful thinking and theories. :P
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rockman
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Post by rockman »

I was worried about fitting the auto system and then it not working, so my solution.

File out the hole so i could fit a 2" poly nipple. Screw this in. and glass it in - with plenty of glass and mat - it will never come out under the ballast water pressure. Onto the nipple i have attached a garden hose adapter. So its easy to attach the following devices..

Now i have three options made up.

1. A cap that seals the hole - no fancy attachments.

2. A plastic valve that screws onto the nipple - can open/close the vent with a simple flick of the valve.

3. The air release fitting. It does not need anything to stop the ball sticking at the bottom. It is designed that way. I got it from a agricultural piping business. But it will be interesting to see how it goes - as the water level is below the level of the ball when sitting level. But if it doesn't work - just remove the snap hose fitting and click on the valve.

Will keep you informed.

Cheers

RockMan
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