Downsizing to a 9.9 Opinions

[Gazmn]

We have lousy sailboat & lousy powerboat. But it does okay at both... Our own words.

My PO told me you'll "see a lot of transoms" if you try racing. It had a 35hp on it that he even took to Bimini, slow & steady.
I repowered when the carb engine left my @ss in a sling, when I needed it most & it failed epically

How much better will our boats sail with a lighter engine?

Fair weather sailing & motoring isn't a concern. But what about when you Need Power...

I have had 3 emergency / rescue situations & several other urgent situations,i.e. instant high wind/ squall situations where I had to get off dock & onto my mooring/ get home; or power through an 18- 20kt head wind to get home.

Keep in mind, we don't sail all that well. But we can Power

Just sayin'
-Gaz

[ronacarme]

We bought our 2001 X new with an Evinrude 9.9 HT 4 stroke with full controls at the pedestal and a low pitch prop. It gave us hull speed (7.4 mph on the GPS) at WOT with full ballast and good forward and reverse control for easy docking. Unfortunately, after 5 years, we had reliability problems. OMC had recently gone bankrupt and dealers seemed to vaporize. When we moved the boat to Holland MI, the nearest dealer was 40 miles or so away.
So in 2006 we traded the engine in on a new Honda 9.9, with 25" leg and 10x6.5" 4 blade prop, which again gave us hull speed at WOT and crisp low speed manuevering for easy docking. Seasonal average mpg from 2006 onward was 11.4, 12.5, 14.5, 15.1, 13.2, 13.3, 10.9, 15, and 15.2 (2014), at average speed of maybe 5 mph or so, used mostly for motoring between slip and Lake Michigan and a little motorsailing. The Honda will push the X into 3-4 foot waves and 15-20 mph headwinds at a comfortable-for -the-crew 4-5 mph or so at part throttle, tho not at hull speed (which would be too rough a ride for the crew anyway)even at WOT.
For our use the Honda 9.9 has been perfect.
Ron

[Seapup]

Fair weather sailing & motoring isn't a concern. But what about when you Need Power...

Keep in mind, we don't sail all that well. But we can Power

Just sayin'
-Gaz

I hear ya Always liked the 90, time will tell on this little one.

The Honda will push the X into 3-4 foot waves and 15-20 mph headwinds at a comfortable-for -the-crew 4-5 mph or so at part throttle, tho not at hull speed (which would be too rough a ride for the crew anyway)even at WOT.
For our use the Honda 9.9 has been perfect.
Ron

Thanks!


The old girl found a new home last week and the 20 was dropped off. New motor is nice and quiet and starts instant. Not sure how it performs yet and if I will regret no power tilt, time will tell. Have it mounted up and ready to test once I finish up a few details. Ran the steering direct to the motor through the tilt tube using a draglink and have the rudders following it, steering is nice and smooth. With everything pulled apart I decided to swap all the lines/controls/steering to go straight back from the helm to the motor above the fiberglass deck and not inside the boat. They will be protected/concealed under the wood deck, just have to order new shorter control cables and will be ready to go. ]

Susie Version 2.0 as we are calling her.



Standard prop it came with and HT 4 blade.

[bahama bound]

When do you think you will run it for the first time in the water ? Would love to hear rpm at hull speed !

[Seapup]

When do you think you will run it for the first time in the water ? Would love to hear rpm at hull speed !

Looks like 2 weeks. Hoping to have it ready for spring and back in the water for the season then. The Teleflex cables should be here this weekend. I am anxiously anticipating the cruising RPMs, figure they will make or break it for us.

So in 2006 we traded the engine in on a new Honda 9.9, with 25" leg and 10x6.5" 4 blade prop

Curious, why did you decide to go with the 25" leg when you switched to the Honda?

[Gazmn]

Mazel tov Bro

U Always gotta welcome a new engine - It's almost as good as a new boat

[Gazmn]

P. S. I'd love to have two of those 20's with counter rotation. One on each rudder & a dual Binnacle on the top of the pedestal... Twin Screws Babe

[Catigale]

Mad mike had 2Nissan 6 HP for his ocean boat...if course, following anyone named mad mike .........

[Seapup]

It warmed up enough last weekend for a few hours of motoring & break in. First impressions are OK, not great not bad. Its light, quiet, hardly any drag when down and moves the boat.

The speed basics with the 4 blade 10” dia x 7 pitch HT prop:
1000 rpm maybe 1mph
2000rpm 3mph
3000rpm 5mph
4000rpm 6mph
4800rpm 6.5-6.7mph
5800 rpm 6.5mph

The motor itself is pretty smooth for a twin. I constantly guessed the rpms about half what they actually were since I am used to a 4 cylinder. It seemed about half the sound level across the entire RPM band of the larger motor. At 5-6 mph its similar to the 90 in sound level. Easy to talk over and listen to the radio. That part is good, I was really hoping for a little more than 6mph on top though since that is what the 9.9s supposedly achieve.

I don’t think the HT prop is going to work. Its supposedly a 7” pitch, but from reading its marketed as a 7” 3 blade equivalent so realistically it’s a 4-5” pitch. It also has a 3” hub on a 2.75” gearcase to let the exhaust gas around the prop in reverse vs through it. As I increase the rpms past about 4500 I get no more speed and there is a noticeable slip that happens at 5000 and the motor jumps to about 5800 with no increase in speed. I think the prop would be fine on a 9.9, but the extra hp just turns it into a blender. I need to try the 3x9.25x10 it came with next and reevaluate. The ventilation plate has room to fit a 11” diameter. I may try a df25 11” diameter 9 pitch that has the larger 3” hub, or go with a 9.25 diameter 4 blade that fits it. At least they are about 1/3 the cost of the larger props.


So a bit more prop testing to come. I am going to give it a season and then decide if I want to swap back to a large motor again. As of now I think if I can get the top speed up just a tad I will be happy with it

[PecosBill]

I have a crew with health issues. My 70hp will get us to medical if needed. That was the whole reason for this purchase. Besides the FUN factor of course.

[Seapup]

I have a crew with health issues. My 70hp will get us to medical if needed. That was the whole reason for this purchase. Besides the FUN factor of course.

Yeah, Its a versatile boat for sure.

For anyone interested in small motors I figure I will update a few times as I experiment.

I have the boat back in for the year and passed the 20hr break in/oil change last weekend and am getting to actually test it to see what it is...and isn't capable of.

With the light motor I am fighting a balance issue with a heavy bow and moving things around. I have only run full ballast so far. I am convinced for motoring a heavy (400lb) motor is more of a benefit than detriment on the X. I did a lot of back to back testing with the two props I have on hand and have decided the high thrust prop is basically snake oil. It has at best 1/2 the forward thrust of a 3 blade with more pitch. There is so little pitch to the HT it just revs and takes forever to actually get the boat moving. With the small motor you can really see what the motor is doing comparatively. The HT does have about equal forward/reverse thrust and a good amount more reverse thrust than a 3 blade. The 3 blade is adequate in reverse though. The 3 blade 10" pitch is too much pitch, it does 1.8 at 700rpm idle, 5 at 2k, 6 at 2400 and less than half throttle, but basically stays at 6.5 as you add throttle and only revs to 3900. It is nice for cruising at 5mph and 2k almost silently.

I found a place that takes props back so have 3 more coming tomorrow, a 7" & 8" 3 blade and standard 7" 4 blade. On the small motors it looks like the extra blade is more drag than advantage so will see how the two 7" compare. Right now I am stuck with the bow plowing at 6mph and can't muscle through the wave enough to start getting the bow to rise. Right now I am basically working with about the first 6 hp of the motor and the rest is wasted making a wake soon as I hit 6mph, which may be all I get. I have trip coming up in another week that will be around 150 miles, so should have a good feel for the motor after that.

[bahama bound]

So how was it on fuel for the first 20 hours ?

[Seapup]

Friday night was ugly 30+ north winds, sat similar and did 40 miles, 3 draws, lock, and stopped at mundens point park sat night, 10 min motoring, all sailing jib at 5-7+ jib only straight downwind. Sunday turned around and backtracked when wind went south 15. Sailed back north total of 30 miles and finally used motor today to turn south into it, 3 draws, 2 locks, tied in the swamp. Thinking a 30 mile run into the wind tomorrow to Elizabeth citywill give me a gas idea.

[mastreb]

Re above I don't know why people keep saying that. I think my M sails great. There was a learning curve to the boat and good sails are a must as is a clean hull bottom, and proper weight distribution. A 10 hp motor would be perfectly fine for making up for the macs M X close quarter deficits. I think it's a bit small for all day slogs upwind in bad conditions, where, everyone in small boats motors no matter how good the boat sails. That's why I think a 20 is where I might end up.
Ix

Concur. Granted, _learning_ to sail the M was frustrating because I thought I already knew how to sail. But once you learn its vagaries and start using its unique features to advantage, you'll see that the M is quite a reasonable sailboat. In light air, it's faster than any keelboat in my experience, and with a decent set of sails and an autopilot, it gets right up with the big boys.

I think the problem most people have is underestimating how much damage to speed you're doing when you move the helm. With the rudders just 5% off the centerline, this boat starts loosing speed. And you can turn the rudders far enough to stop the boat cold in the water. And with such a nervous helm, it's very hard to keep from doing that. Put an autopilot on, use it to keep course to the wind, and you'll see the boat perform like any other.

Matt

[Seapup]

So how was it on fuel for the first 20 hours ?

I have about 60 hours on it in a month now Break in, shake down and a trip added them up quickly.

Fuel Use - Last week did about 145 miles motoring with the sailing is subtracted out. It worked out to about 30 hours of motoring and used 10 gallons.

14.5MPG and 1/3 gph.

About 4 hours were wide open, most around 5 mph half throttle, and a few hours slow timing bridges/locks. The 90 averaged about 1gph @ 6mph 2k rpm. Opened up it drained 6 gal in 45 min at about 3mpg. I did the same stretch of ICW last spring, but 40 miles less, and used a little over 20 gal, so am happy with the fuel use. I shouldn’t need to take jerry cans on trips anymore.

I picked up a pump to drain ballast and tried it out in the canals. Took about 30 minutes to pump out, the bow came up about 4” but made no difference in speed or RPM.

I have used 6 props on it now. Basically neither 4 blade worked, they both slipped and ventilated trying to get over 6.5mph when the boat is plowing. The 3 blades are predictable, the 10” pitch stops at 7mph/4k and the 7” pitch 8mph/5300rpm. The 10 pitch reaches 6mph at 2500 vs 3000 rpm so I swapped back to it for the second half of the trip since I was in no hurry.



Overall it took some mental adjustment that I couldn’t just hit the throttle when I was getting tired of motoring down the ICW. I am looking at it as a 1 speed boat …sailing whether there is wind or not…and that works for me. It took longer days with it on the same trip, but resulted in more stops and had a more relaxed trip overall. I was able to practice maneuvering it in a lot of situations through locks, bridges & stops last week. As long as you don’t come in too hot its nice and relaxed with good control. I took some pride when next to the other transients and delivery crews doing the same maneuvers (in larger boats of course) with a less fuss than them.

I am glad I had the 90 and enjoyed it thoroughly. Would I buy it over or trade for a new 90, absolutely, will I trade back up, probably not. The little motor does what I like to do.