Mast Raising Alterations 26M

[Jimmyt]

So the klacko spar system just says poop on geometry. They use a sliding car on a mast track to take care of the issue.

Different way to get the job done. Very Interesting.

From the manufacturers write-up:
The key to this system is the use of a spinnaker-pole track with a freely moving car. Since the mast and the aft A-frame rotate around different pivot points, the car must be able to move along the track as the mast rotates about its pivot. For sailors who don’t have a spinnaker-pole track and don’t want to install one, a bridle around the mast or even a 12-inch-long link plate between the apex of the A-frame and the fixed point on the mast would work, but neither system offers the same amount of transverse fixity that the spinnaker-pole track and car...

[Tomfoolery]

So the klacko spar system just says poop on geometry. They use a sliding car on a mast track to take care of the issue.

Different way to get the job done. Very Interesting.

From the manufacturers write-up:
The key to this system is the use of a spinnaker-pole track with a freely moving car. Since the mast and the aft A-frame rotate around different pivot points, the car must be able to move along the track as the mast rotates about its pivot. For sailors who don’t have a spinnaker-pole track and don’t want to install one, a bridle around the mast or even a 12-inch-long link plate between the apex of the A-frame and the fixed point on the mast would work, but neither system offers the same amount of transverse fixity that the spinnaker-pole track and car...

That's a lot of parts required to raise the mast. With two poles, the car can slide. With one pole, the car would have to be fixed.

I don't know, but my simple gin pole and baby stays are about as simple as it gets. Longer baby stays would mean they don't have to be disconnected to roll the mast forward for transport, which is especially handy when folding things up to take on a road trip. I leave the MRS in place, too, since it's just going to be used at the other end of the road trip anyway.

The geometry of the MRS in the video is fine for most of the mast travel when raising, but the lower block attachment point is so far forward that it runs of out 'leverage' as the mast gets to the top. If you're going to attach and tune the stays every time, then it doesn't matter, but I don't want to do that. I just crank mine down hard and attach the forestay. No tuning required, since I tune it and leave it tuned, and the MRS can pull hard enough against the shrouds to slacken the forestay enough to pull the pin, or put it back in when stepping the mast.



I wish I could find the video of the A-frame MRS that was part of the boat and lays on the deck neatly against the rail when sailing. That was the most elegant system I've ever seen.

[Jimmyt]

That's a lot of parts required to raise the mast. With two poles, the car can slide. With one pole, the car would have to be fixed.

I don't know, but my simple gin pole and baby stays are about as simple as it gets. Longer baby stays would mean they don't have to be disconnected to roll the mast forward for transport, which is especially handy when folding things up to take on a road trip. I leave the MRS in place, too, since it's just going to be used at the other end of the road trip anyway.

Absolutely agree. However, I do enjoy seeing how other folks approach the problem. Almost always something I can learn, even if it's that I'm glad I didn't do it that way...

I leave my MRS on a lot as well. Towing configuration shown below (captains seat down on road). One thing I don't like about the M MRS is, it has a lot of sharp corners to scratch the deck. I typically throw some towels under it, but it would be nice to put some rubber feet under it to keep bolt ends and the winch handle off the deck.

[BOAT]

HEY! You have a furling main! You never told us you have a furling main. What's that wooden box for with the hole in the top of it? Do you have a welder in the corner? You know how to weld! ? (I want to know how to weld )

I thought fluorescent light fixtures were illegal. (What's that yellow and black stick thing with the curly cue on the end?)

Is that your garage?
(i like your creeper)
i don't think that little wood block is big enough to keep your boat from rolling away in an earthquake

[Jimmyt]

HEY! You have a furling main! You never told us you have a furling main. What's that wooden box for with the hole in the top of it? Do you have a welder in the corner? You know how to weld! ? (I want to know how to weld )

I thought fluorescent light fixtures were illegal. (What's that yellow and black stick thing with the curly cue on the end?)

Is that your garage?
(i like your creeper)
i don't think that little wood block is big enough to keep your boat from rolling away in an earthquake

Yep. I may have mentioned the furling main before.

Wooden box with the hole is the fan section of my homemade dust collection system.

I have a small TIG/stick welder. Don’t know if it’s in that pic. You may be seeing the top of my air compressor. Whether I know how to use the welder or not is a separate matter and up for debate. You can do it. If I can learn, anyone can.

Legacy fluorescents. Since the garage didn’t get fire damage, no lighting replacement. Nothing is illegal in Alabama.

Gutter cleaner - don’t waste your money. I got it for free and consider it a ripoff at that price.

That is my garage/basement. When you buy the cheapest lot in the neighborhood, that even the crazy builders didnt want, there are opportunities to experiment. Dug a hole into the side of a hill and planted a house in it. Basements aren’t real popular, but they are done.

Thanks - it’s just creepy enough to suit me.

Very few earthquakes here. Hope it doesn’t roll over that block.

If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were pulling my leg just a tad!!!

[Russ]

Roller furling MAIN!

I'm very interested in this. I don't care about performance as much as keeping my arse off the deck.
Can you tell more?


I think I will settle on lazy jacks and Jim's loop main halyard that PULLS the main down. My main always gets stuck on junk (like the reefing loop). I'm getting tired of going up on deck to deal with the main. Envious of those in mast mains.

[BOAT]

Oh man - in mast min is da bomb but no good on MAC - too much weight aloft.

But and IN BOOM main - might be doable

Jimmy has long legs and his garage is made of concrete blocks - ready for atomic bombs?

[Jimmyt]

Roller furling MAIN!

I'm very interested in this. I don't care about performance as much as keeping my arse off the deck.
Can you tell more?


I think I will settle on lazy jacks and Jim's loop main halyard that PULLS the main down. My main always gets stuck on junk (like the reefing loop). I'm getting tired of going up on deck to deal with the main. Envious of those in mast mains.

Rather a Rube Goldberg affair. Compared to some of the commercial furling booms. I feel like it's quicker to setup and takedown for trailering, and it offers infinite reefing if you don't mind a little less than optimum sail shape. Mine came rigged wrong from the PO. It's a work in progress, and definitely on the list of things to fine tune. I like it. Would I like lazy jacks better? Don't know (yet). I'll post on it when I get around to messing with it. Right now, it's not near the top of the list because it works ok.

BOAT has sailed with one that was properly set up, so might be able to give you additional input. If it helps, I think it was around $1,500 for the option.

I can give you pics and measurements if you need them.

[Jimmyt]

Jimmy has long legs and his garage is made of concrete blocks - ready for atomic bombs?

They' re a bit longer than they used to be... Hopefully those blocks will hold back the 12 feet of dirt that's trying to get in!

You're a rascal! That's what I like about you

[BOAT]

It's like the MRS system - a sort of all 'one piece' bolt on solution. That's how Mike had to sell it because it was an option. If it were a little more integrated into the rigging it might work a little better but as a stand alone solution it's okay.

I could not figure it out at first but if you understand the lines and how it works it's about as easy (and troublesome) as the genoa furler. Like anything else - it requires you to pay attention to the slack lines and to apply tension appropriately as you use it.

Performance is not as good as the stock sail at the top end of the speed range (because the lower part of the main is just not there). There is also a shorter leach and crappy battens on the furling main so it's not as good downwind. Surprisingly the furling main does not seem to detract any pointing ability (probably because the pointing ability on the M is so crappy in the first place). I have tricks to make the M boat point but I will not go into that here. Also, a short leach actually improves upwind performance (as you may notice the race boats all had narrow sails with a straight leach).

If you really must have roller reefing and you don't care what it looks like it is a good solution.

It's not real cool looking like the electric ones with the carbon fiber skirts like they used on the MAC70 boom. If they made that for the 26M it would be the bomb!

One of the reasons Mikes furling main accelerates nicely and performs well into the wind is because it uses a bolted luff - it's the real deal with a bolt rope in the mast so it's not degraded by slugs. I have slugs and I still HATE them because they really detract from upwind performance.

A bolted main with a full leach and proper battens ? now, put THAT on a furling main and I'm there - I would buy it. I might consider a roller reef on my main even if only to get back to a bolted Luff.

I must ask Jimmy - have you ever had any trouble with that thing getting fed into the mast slot going up? Ever a problem?? I might be interested in the mechanism on the gooseneck - I could build something that might work like the MAC70. If you guys can give me a really reliable feed system for a bolted main I think I can create a gooseneck that will roll up the stock main - the only thing is that you will need to remove the battens as you lower the sail.

This would actually be easier on a X boat because they have a backstay you can attach the boom onto while cranking the main up and down. i would need to also modify the topping lift so it could be adjusted from the cockpit (you need to pull up the end to the boom to get it to roll).

[Russ]

Great post BOAT.

The bolted main probably offsets disadvantages of the roller and battens.

Great post!

[Jimmyt]

Report after first actual use at the ramp.

Mast sway was virtually eliminated and it was blowing 10-15. The baby shrouds or so-called "stays" were rigged so tight that it was actually difficult to release the snap shackles at the stanchions in the full up position. I just backed down a degree until the standing rigging was just less than tight and was able to release the raising shrouds then. Took a minute to noodle through during raising, but was able to do the reverse during the drop, so no additional time was lost. My gin pole shrouds were a similar story. Put a slight load on the gin pole to connect them, and keep a slight load to disconnect them. Caught myself using the ginpole as a steadying point several times, so glad I added them.

I switched from bungees to Velcro straps for securing the rig for towing in most spots. Still have 2 or 3 bungees. The Velcro straps are easier to get tight at the appropriate length than bungees.

The PVC furler support worked great - much easier to secure than the crutch. It is heavier though. I stowed it and the mast raising rig on the v-berth as my daughter and I were just going out for a few hours. I would probably leave it in the truck otherwise.

Still need to build a padded bag or otherwise manage the furling drum to keep it from clanking all over the deck.

The snap shackles are OK, but something with a bit more leverage would be better if you rig it all tight like I did. If you're made of money, 4 Johnson levers might be a good way to go.

Still need to work on the spreader situation. Way faster with two people right now due to the need to manage the un-pinned spreaders and untangle shrouds as the mast base is moved from the pulpit to the step. I have not dropped the lifelines yet, but am looking at that as a possible solution.

[BOAT]

On the spreaders the real problem is not the spreaders - it's the stanchions.

The stanchions on boat lift off so they are out of the way during the mast roll. That solved the issue of the spreaders.

[Jimmyt]

On the spreaders the real problem is not the spreaders - it's the stanchions.

The stanchions on boat lift off so they are out of the way during the mast roll. That solved the issue of the spreaders.

Is that in the mods section or do I need to beg you for pics. I'm intrigued!

[BOAT]

I guess i will need to make pics.

On 'boat' when you release the pelican hooks you can pull the top half of the stanchions up and off. I just let them hang on the ground out of the way while I am doing the mast raising process - it makes the deck cleaner and I have less crap hanging up on the lifelines.

The main reason I did this was because the overhang on my roof was obstructing the starboard side when i put the boat in the side yard so making the starboard stanchions pull off became a necessity to get the boat down the side yard but when I noticed how much easier it made raising the mast I went ahead and modified the port rear stanchion too and after that the mast roll was a simple affair.

I thought I posted it before but I can't remember - I guess I will need to take picture again.

(I have never posted to the MODS page before because it was to limiting - only three pictures allowed and I was never able to describe my mods with only three pictures.

Like Bill said, I have the runs (of the mouth) so I need more pictures and words to explain what I am trying to say because I am so lousy at saying it.